Council of State to review McDowells Criminal Justice Bill

[Maximus]

The President, Mary McAleese is calling for a meeting of the Council of State to review the Criminal Justice Bill.

She has convened the meeting for Wednesday next, in accordance with her powers under Article 26 of the Constitution.

It provides that, following consultation with the Council of State, the President may refer any Bill to the Supreme Court for a review of its constitutionality.

The Criminal Justice Bill was passed by the Oireachtas late last month, despite protests from civil liberties groups and some members of the opposition.

Unison

[Kf]

Yeah and watch Mc Dowelll have a hissy fit if it referred to the Supreme court. If I recall both Labour and FG supported this bill. I think they had an issue with the amount of time to debate it but lacked the cojones to oppose it on the basis that wanted to be seen "tough on crime".

Makes you despair!

[aisling2323]

if this is true this is a really interesting development.
John Rogers SC and former Attorney General publishd an article in the Irish times saying that in his opinion the bill was unconstitutional

i think from memory his concerns were the provisions on continually renewing the detention of the accused in prison - where for instance a court can prolong the detention for a further 72 hours etc where the Gardai bring the accused before the court and ask for more time to hold him/her is custody.

there may well be a question mark over the mandatory sentencing provisions :

if Supreme Court rule it unconstitutional it was a glorious opportunity missed by the opposition to follow Rogers ..

[ailish]

The President, Mary McAleese is calling for a meeting of the Council of State to review the Criminal Justice Bill.

She has convened the meeting for Wednesday next, in accordance with her powers under Article 26 of the Constitution.

It provides that, following consultation with the Council of State, the President may refer any Bill to the Supreme Court for a review of its constitutionality.

The Criminal Justice Bill was passed by the Oireachtas late last month, despite protests from civil liberties groups and some members of the opposition.

Unison

Civil Liberities is a nice cushy word to throw about the place when it comes to law enforcement but the reality is, we need this bill to give the Gardai more powers against Gangland Criminals otherwise we risk becoming a gangland society.

[Limerick Lad]

Whatever decision the Supreme Court come to, it's unlikely to make a ruling on it's constitutionality before the election so it will be for the next Government to deal with.

[Pidge]

Civil Liberities is a nice cushy word to throw about the place when it comes to law enforcement but the reality is, we need this bill to give the Gardai more powers against Gangland Criminals otherwise we risk becoming a gangland society.

Says she, exercising her civil liberty to freedom of speech...

I believe that a large problem of this bill is what it does to people who aren't (in a legal sense) "GangLanD CriMinalS".

[CJH]

The President, Mary McAleese is calling for a meeting of the Council of State to review the Criminal Justice Bill.

She has convened the meeting for Wednesday next, in accordance with her powers under Article 26 of the Constitution.

It provides that, following consultation with the Council of State, the President may refer any Bill to the Supreme Court for a review of its constitutionality.

The Criminal Justice Bill was passed by the Oireachtas late last month, despite protests from civil liberties groups and some members of the opposition.

Unison

People sometimes sneer at the concept of the presidency, but it is in instances like this that it shows its worth.

Hopefully they will refer it, and the SC will give the Bill the kicking it deserves.

[Mozalini]

The President, Mary McAleese is calling for a meeting of the Council of State to review the Criminal Justice Bill.

She has convened the meeting for Wednesday next, in accordance with her powers under Article 26 of the Constitution.

It provides that, following consultation with the Council of State, the President may refer any Bill to the Supreme Court for a review of its constitutionality.

The Criminal Justice Bill was passed by the Oireachtas late last month, despite protests from civil liberties groups and some members of the opposition.

Unison

People sometimes sneer at the concept of the presidency, but it is in instances like this that it shows its worth.

Hopefully they will refer it, and the SC will give the Bill the kicking it deserves.

Amen.

[The OD]

The President, Mary McAleese is calling for a meeting of the Council of State to review the Criminal Justice Bill.

She has convened the meeting for Wednesday next, in accordance with her powers under Article 26 of the Constitution.

It provides that, following consultation with the Council of State, the President may refer any Bill to the Supreme Court for a review of its constitutionality.

The Criminal Justice Bill was passed by the Oireachtas late last month, despite protests from civil liberties groups and some members of the opposition.

Unison

Civil Liberities is a nice cushy word to throw about the place when it comes to law enforcement but the reality is, we need this bill to give the Gardai more powers against Gangland Criminals otherwise we risk becoming a gangland society.

Civil liberties is not a 'nice cushy word' to throw around. It is the expectation that you will treated with decency, respect, honesty and due process. Its the belief that all people deserve a certain standard of treatment by the powers that be and are not automatically labelled as criminals, treated thus and be denied rights that are intrinsically theirs.

Please dont insult me with trying to equate the scum who stalk the country with the normal decent people who already have enough to deal with in life. By the reasoning of people like you, we should take the view that all are guilty until proven otherwise.

Hypothetical situation for you Ailish - some of your views are decidely right wing, bordering on the fascist. Say we start to have problems with a rash of right wing fringe groups assaulting immigrants and their property, business and someone picks up on your views. Suppose in this hypothetical situation, Ailish is picked by Gardai investigating these groups and mark you as a possible supporter and/or member of such? Using some of their hypothetical powers, they decide to hold you for seven days without charge, grilling you intently as to who you know, how you think etc. Would you think that your civil liberties where beig infringed or would you accept this as a necessary evil in combatting these groups?

What if, in the seven day period, your employer decided that you are not a fit person to be on the payroll? What if they sacked you arbitrarilarly? But of course, with a dearth of civil liberty legislation in this hypothetical Ireland, Ailish has no comeback. But these laws were only enacted to 'protect you' werent they? Who would speak for you? Who would speak for those of a similar mindset of those who attacked the immigrants? People who for all their beliefs, are not violent, simply vocal in their beliefs? People who have a right to their beliefs (anti immigration etc) as much as those who's belief take a different direction.

I believe bills like this are a slippery slope into a society I don't want any part of.

Civil liberties are just that. To tell me that I should sacrifice some liberty to gain some security is a non starter. I would rather live in a dangerous world free, than restricted in a safe sterile world. I will not be punished by the actions of a few.

At its core, if the Garda are having trouble with these gangs, change their tactics, politicians should up their numbers, arm them where necessary (ot something I am comfortable with but, but then I am not the one who is meant to go arrest a coke crazed ealer, am I?), think different, stop promoting obvious accountant mentality people to key positions in the force, root out corruption, stop treating people from working class areas like scum, perhaps if their trust was gained then so few of the scum that blight so many communities could operate with their apparent impunity, start acting like what they claim to be - public servants and guardians of the peace.

Grow up Ailish - only in Die Hard movies is their a requirement to circumvent the just application of the law and peoples rights as humans. Last I heard, John McClane was a psycho with a personality disorder who gets a kick out of people regaining their ability to kill again. This is the real world and him and people like Jack Bauer has no place in it.

[The OD]

Double post