Ireland through the eyes of a stranger.

[antiestablishmentarian]

[quote=Eurocitizen;2970142][quote=Mushroom;2969975]

They are a minority and do not represent the majority of citizens,



Fungus our politicians were elected , your scum have no mandate all you need is bricks and bottles.

The 'Dublin Riots' apart, any violence that happens on protests in this country is generally instigated by the police: take Rossport and the collusion between state forces and the fascist thugs of IRMS, the Reclaim the Streets disgrace where gardaí attacked a peaceful parade and batoned dozens of activists.

[junius]

OK, I'll answer open-heartedly. Like it or not.

I see Ireland as a self-hating country. I write "country" because I don't quite know what a nation is - always remember that someone's eyes are always tinted by his own history of vision. For me, it's obviously my nationless country quietly disappearing.

I'm not that much impressed by the present financial crisis. Such crises are bound to come and go in the crazy system we were fool enough to accept as dominant. This crisis doesn't affect what I think of Ireland. How I feel you Irish react to it, I come to this below.

I discovered Ireland through litterature. Not so much the classics I studied (Joyce, Yeats, Synge, ...) as the contemporaries I read as Nuala Ó Faolain, Joseph Ó Connor, Keith Ridgway, Martin MacDonagh, all of them depicting a contemporary situation going back to that malediction of yours, the Famine.

It is striking that contemporary writers refer constantly to that terrible period of your history. This led me to think that the Famine still has to be dealt with in the minds of the Irish of today.

What does this have to do with self-hate ? Well, it has to do with the shame of having been a victim, a fugitive, not having been able to withstand what was in fact unwithstandable : starve to death or flee is not a bargain. But that shame I still feel.

I do not have any advice to give to you on how to deal with that but I feel you haven't dealt yet. And I'm sure many Irish will negate this and call me a fool.

That's one point.

The other one is that I'm a linguist by education. I lost my job last year (yes, in Belgium too, you know, ...), had quite a lot of time and decided to learn Irish. A positive decision (yes, I might have done better learning Chinese or accountancy, blablabla). Gaeilge gave and still gives me a lot of joy - I found another job, in case you worried, and I keep on learning Gaeilge.

I encountered the same self-hate with Irish people about their own (?) language (?) (culture ?). Many "?" because I'm really puzzled when I read here Irish people despising Gaeilge or wishing it to be dead.

That much about the self-hate I feel in Irish people.

Now the brighter side.

Well, of course, you have the priviledge to live in one of the most beautiful places on earth - but for whatever God there is's sake, stop the anarchy of building anywhere. Environment is still a question a self-respect. But that's not my point.

I feel at home with most Irish people just because of all that I wrote about self-hate and questioning about a nation (you have a sense of behaving sometimes absurdly in a way that is close to ours in Belgium, well to mine anyway). Ireland is a survivors' island. You will survive the present crisis as you survived worse ones. But will you learn from it since you didn't cope with the Famine ?

The general impression here is "they got what they deserved" : taking greedily without a "thank you" the European funds, using them to finance social dumping, unfair competition to the financing Member States.

I do not feel close at all to some Irish people I met here in Brussels and elsewhere, or whose messages I read here, who blame the crisis on minorities, try to find scapegoats, in or out Ireland. There are such people in my own country and I don't like them.

I realise that I gave more reasons to hate Ireland than to love it. But love is not rational, is it ?

Thank you!

[riker1969]

[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=4]It cannot be argued that when reading through the threads on P.ie that we all have a different vision of the Ireland that we all live in and what we see through our own eyes.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=4]It is difficult to grasp the complete contrasts of opinions on everyday life in Ireland. It would be disingenuous to suggest that anybody is wrong as we all do live in different social worlds and we all witness different things in our everyday lives.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=4]Having read with great detail many of the opinions of posters that witness nothing but tragedy and despair on this small Island of ours I have tried to build a colour picture of what these posters actually see through what they express in the majority of their posts, it is not the Ireland that I see but maybe I have been sheltered from all the despair or maybe we are all living in Parallel worlds in which we are not aware.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=4]I have placed myself in the eyes of a stranger who has read the opinions of the posters who find Ireland a depressing place to live and who see nothing but depression and hardship for the citizens of Ireland.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=4]This is the picture that I see as the eyes of a stranger.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]People struggling day after day to feed their families.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]People dying in overcrowded hospitals that are filthy and disease ridded.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]People lying on trolleys helpless and unattended too.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]People dying on the streets and in their homes because they cannot receive heart operations [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]People unable to walk because they have damaged hips or knees.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]People left to die because nobody cares.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]People isolated in their homes because of lack of public transport.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Few cars on the road because of the costs.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Empty housing estates everywhere in every part of the country.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Families living in overcrowded houses that are rat invested.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Children getting a poor education in rat invested schools.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]No facilities for children to play and running barefooted through the streets.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Bailiffs throwing thousands of families out of their homes onto the streets because they cannot afford the rent.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]A nonexistent welfare system.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Universities overcrowded with lack of facilities for the students.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]People not getting third level education because of the above.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Ghettos everywhere and thousands injecting themselves with heroine with no help from the state.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Senior citizens struggling on pittance, dying from the cold in winter because they have no fuel or food.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Blind and people wandering the streets with no place to go.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]No facilities for people with disabilities.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Politicians doing nothing and all politicians living in luxury with large houses and yachts’.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]No road structures or motorways- no infrastructure.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Airports and ferry ports full to capacity with people leaving the Island with the few possessions that they own.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]No sports stadiums.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Riots on the streets of the Capital.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][FONT=Symbol]· [/FONT][FONT=Calibri]Garda beating the citizens to the ground and blood flowing through the streets.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4] [/SIZE]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=4]I had to stop there as my eyes were filling and all I wanted to do is to make a phone call and ask someone for international help to be sent to Ireland.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=4] [/SIZE]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=4]Now back to my own eyes and although I cannot say that these posters do not see this Ireland- it is not the Ireland that I live in, maybe I am one of the lucky ones that live in the parallel world. A parallel world where the majority of people are not perfectly happy, but far from despair and destitution.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Are you a FF supporter-Im going by your avatar ? Because if you are-you do know your party has been in power the last 13 years and have caused much of the above??

[A Belgian]

Just a short anecdote, witnessed yesterday at the Eurostar terminal in Brussels. A young guy arrives breathless at check-in, too late for the train he was booked for. Usually, people hate being told : "sorry, you just missed your train" and some react very rudely indeed. Not this guy. He was all smiles and a bit funny too. I saw that the two employees at the desk were willing to find a solution to help such a nice person. And of course I had identified his accent already. I asked him and he answered "Yes I'm Irish, nobody is perfect you know".

The moment he said that, he had gained even more the sympathy of the employees. But they couldn't book a train before the next day for your compatriot. He did not complain at all and was all "thanks for trying". After he left, I heard the employees say "the Irish are simply the nicest people" and it seemed a shared perception among them.

Cheers !

[A Belgian]

[QUOTE=Indy-pendant;2967465]To A Belgian, maith an fear! Freagra iontach, go raibh maith agat.

I think there are lots of similarities between your country and ours:
- love of good beer (what I wouldn't give for a nice cold bottle of Kriek rousse or a Mort Subite this minute!!)
- being a small divided nation/country with bigger, more culturally powerful neighbours
- having a sense of humour - and badly needing it in order to survive

As for the Irish getting over the Famine, never forget that we are the descendants of the people who survived and were able to stay. So many more died or had to leave to survive, and there's a guilt and a sort of inverse resentment because of that, I feel.

And here we are again, back to the days when unemployment is dealt with by powerful people telling powerless people that they'd be better off 'making something of themselves somewhere else', while those same powerful elites have been fattening themselves. Ahh yes, there's resentment alright - ach beidh lá eile ag an bpaorach

Thank you for your kind words. I perfectly agree on your three points Alas not yet able to answer as Gaeilge but time will come...

I think you're right to mention the guilt of surviving - found something similar in my own family with a great uncle only survivor of three brothers sent to forced work in Poland by the Nazis : he never could get over it and died at 42 of no known illness a few years later, out of sadness, guilt, possibly. The tale in the family goes as follows : he was the weakest of the three and the other two had tried to protect him by working harder and giving him some of their meager food.

But of course this is a single story, nothing to compare with the total famine Ireland suffered.

[Indy-pendant]

...But of course this is a single story, nothing to compare with the total famine Ireland suffered.

Ah but isn't history just a collection of individual stories, each one adding it's unique strand to the tapestry. Maybe the War is to Belgium what the Famine is to Ireland?

I think that we need some heros in Ireland right now. People's trust is shattered. The institutions that were our 'immovable objects' have ripped themselves apart and exposed more than feet of clay viz. the political system, the catholic church, even our banks. The 'irresistible forces' of globalism rush into the vacuum, and voila! what do you get? Well, it looks like we got - a property bubble! We lost the run of ourselves and thought we were the centre of the universe, instead of a small little country on the edge of Europe. (Bautifully formed, mind you - but still... small! )

Even something as trivial as a victory or defeat in sport can effect the national psyche. Isn't it odd that we can do heroic sportsmen, heroic musical and visual artists, even heroic scientists.

Unfortunately, we don't seem to have much in the line of heroic politicians at the moment.

Never mind, as we say in our family, mother is the necessity of invention!