"The rich get richer while the poor get taxed "

[Panopticon]

I think it is absurd that there's such great concentration in wealth. This idea that there's no more money and you can't raise taxes is merely propaganda by the likes of IBEC who want the lowest paid workers taxed to the hilt as well as min. wage abolished. I'm pretty fed up of this deference to the markets. "ooh how will the markets react to this or that... oh no I saw a black cat today, call the markets, ask them how they feel". The example of the mining corporations in Australia is a perfect example of how wealth equals great power and influence.

I challenge the usual crowd to avoid using the same character assassinations and slurs such as "trot", "commie" or Maoist that are usually leveled at anyone who brings up the question of how much wealth there is in the world and its distribution. Nowhere in the article does Browne espouse any communism or any other action related to the Soviet Union including genocide. I dare ye.

Sorry, but that's a poor get-out clause. It remains the case that the two greatest efforts to create your ideal, equal society caused two of the three greatest genocides of the twentieth century. Unavoidable, really, when you remove productive resources by force from those who are accustomed to using them to create wealth and give them instead to feckless ZANU-esque cronies. And that is the choice in the real world: wealth can be held either by competitive business or feckless cronies.

[hammer]

If the rich dont pay tax why should you

Claim for everything

Prescription charges
Doctors bills
Waste charges
Uniform allowance
Union fees
Get on the bike to work scheme
Pensions
Paye credit
Rent allowance €2,000 @ 20%
Mortgage interest relief

[Design for Life]

The low paid pay very little tax.

With stealth taxes galore including on such essential public services as waste collection and soon water the low-paid pay more than their share of tax not

Half of all Irish workers pay zero income tax. It is slightly above average man earning between 50k and 100k that carries the country.

The poorest 50% don't pay any income tax. The richest 4% pay 50% of all income taxes.

The rich pay. The poor don't. The rest is Marxist spin or gross ignorance.

Because they don't earn enough money to pay tax because we've got large inequalities in income. Half of all earners are earning about €30,000 or less while jackasses are given over €300,000 to act as the head of the HSE.

Your beloved richest are paying a very small proportion of their income in tax.

Impossible and unconstitutional. You are Irish by right not by what you pay. What could be done is tightening the rules. If their wives and families are here then they are clearly adopting a flag of convenience by being non-resident. Also a hefty property tax on their residences could be brought in which was started in the last budget. As for your comment about US that is plain rubbish. U2 have done more this country and out image across the globe that almost anyone else in the last 50 years.

Not since McDowell's racist constitutional ammendment in 2004 you're not.

What is the solution?

From what I can tell in Ireland the people who use public services the most are the people who pay the least or probable no net tax. Ireland is built on low taxes which have attracted foreign companies so if we increase these taxes they and the rich individuals will leave.

So here we have it in : the rich don't want to pay tax. Grand, cheers for pointing that out to us.

By the way as Leo Varadkar has pointed out personal taxation levels for the highest earners are about the same as Scandinavian levels.

Some of them Scandanavian countries are the most equal in Europe while Ireland is one of the most unequal. Such a stat of course skirts over your and Leo's head.

I'm glad that at least someone recognises that the entrepreneur who takes the risks deserves a disproportionate reward.

Are you also glad that when the entrepreneur loses it's society that then picks up the tab a la NAMA?

[hammer]

SPIN - 50% of all workers pay 0% tax. This is a plane lie. This is said to justify the rich not paying anymore

We have a workforce of 1.8 million - 50% = 900,000

Do intelligent posters seriously believe that 900,000 pay NO tax.

Firstly they pay PRSI, health levys & income levys. Their employers also contribute employers PRSI 8.5% minimum.

For a single person to pay €0 tax he needs to earn less than €18,300
For a married person to pay 0% tax he needs to earn less than €36,600

How the feck did we have any economy if 900,000 people were earning less than this and how the hell could they ever afford to buy any type of home?

[Design for Life]

Sorry, but that's a poor get-out clause. It remains the case that the two greatest efforts to create your ideal, equal society caused two of the three greatest genocides of the twentieth century. Unavoidable, really, when you remove productive resources by force from those who are accustomed to using them to create wealth and give them instead to feckless ZANU-esque cronies. And that is the choice in the real world: wealth can be held either by competitive business or feckless cronies.

Eh no sorry I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't espoused genocide or anything of the sort.


With regards to equal society, Sweden has some of the most equal distributions of wealth in the world and they're a fine market capitalist economy. They distribute wealth in a more equal manner by way of their taxation system. Japan are also pretty equal when it comes to wealth distribution but they tackle it from the other end with the levels of pay.

There's ample evidence to show that the more equal a society is the better it does in terms of health, literacy rates, teenage pregnancies, lower crime rates etc.

[Grumpy Jack]

SPIN - 50% of all workers pay 0% tax. This is a plane lie. This is said to justify the rich not paying anymore

We have a workforce of 1.8 million - 50% = 900,000

Do intelligent posters seriously believe that 900,000 pay NO tax.

Firstly they pay PRSI, health levys & income levys. Their employers also contribute employers PRSI 8.5% minimum.

For a single person to pay €0 tax he needs to earn less than €18,300
For a married person to pay 0% tax he needs to earn less than €36,600

How the feck did we have any economy if 900,000 people were earning less than this and how the hell could they ever afford to buy any type of home?

It's in the Revenue's own figures. Lenihan gave the figures in Dail last November.

[hammer]

Their figures are usually about 4 years out of date. Do you believe that 900,000 workers pay €0 tax?

[Grumpy Jack]

Their figures are usually about 4 years out of date. Do you believe that 900,000 workers pay €0 tax?

Those available on Revenue website are from 2006 (2008 Statistical Reports) but Lenihan quoted from 2008 and 2009 figures and 2010 projections in Dail during prebudget speech last November.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate...l&Node=H12#H12

He said 50% will pay no income tax this year while just 11% will pay income tax at top rate. Also, in 2008, top 4% paid 48% of all income tax collected.

Ronan Lyons has an interesting tax quiz based on 2006 Revenue figures and his analysis of them.

A little quiz on Ireland’s income tax | Ronan Lyons

Statistical Report 2008

[sandar]

firstly some very rich people work for the state and are paying more thanks to the levy.

[sandar]

I dont think the entrpreneur deserves diproportionate reward,

a sustainable capitalist economy is based on the princiapl of 'normal profits' any firm earning more than that obver a long period is operating in a =n industry with insufficient competition and more competition is the way to get them back to nromal profits