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  1. #21
    cheg2010 cheg2010 is offline

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    The thing that many of you dont seem to realise is that our centralised government in Europe is controlled by the same power structure which controls the US. In the end there wont be any difference between them. Tyranny for all..
    "Orwellian" describes the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past.

    we were warned but nobody listened
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  2. #22
    QuizMaster QuizMaster is offline
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    I think we should join up with Sweden.
    * Better health
    * Better education
    * er...
    * Just better everything.

    Or maybe we could form a sort of alliance between ourselves, Sweden and Singapore. And maybe a nice island in the Carribean. Sure why not, if we're speculating like crazy we may as well go for the best we can imagine.
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  3. #23
    farnaby farnaby is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuizMaster View Post
    I think we should join up with Sweden.
    * Better health
    * Better education
    * er...
    * Just better everything.

    Or maybe we could form a sort of alliance between ourselves, Sweden and Singapore. And maybe a nice island in the Carribean. Sure why not, if we're speculating like crazy we may as well go for the best we can imagine.
    Yup. The purpose of these threads seems to be to dream our way out of the crushing certainty that politically things will continue as before in this country. The general theme is that we will have the best of both worlds - retaining some national control over stuff while being part of something bigger, be it a federal EU, re-entering the UK or becoming Airstrip 1 for the US. Can't see any of these truly improving our quality of life.
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  4. #24
    SirHenryGrattan SirHenryGrattan is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by adrem View Post
    Just a broad question that struck me recently.

    I know many people have ideological issues with the US in many areas but equally many people have ideological issues with the EU and even closer to home, with the current government.

    Leaving them to one side - from a day to day perspective, would the Irish people be better off as the 51st state of the US than we are as a country within the EU?

    Taxation wise - probably not hugely different. As a State we would operate our own budget anyway.

    Policy wise - the US gives a lot of freedom to States to effect their own social policies, albeit with some overarching ones (abortion, gun control etc).

    Employment - massive opportunity for Irish to travel and work in the US but more importantly as the entry point for US into Europe we would be a prime hub for US companies with EU customers.

    Education - no massive change albeit a liklihood that there would be more transfers between US and Irish education facilities.

    Health - the system can't get any worse - healthcare costs in the US are very high but I would think that State controls could be used to manage that risk and prevent spill over - the geographical distance would tend to prevent cost migration across State lines

    Politics - all the focus would be on State politics - the national element would be gone. But how much of a real loss would that be ?

    Statehood - gone. Again from a day to day perspective, would that make much of a difference?

    Social identity - the US is far from Homogenous - individual States are just that so maintaining a sense of Irish-ness wouldn't be a major problem (we'd probably get federal assistance !!)

    Yes - it's somewhat tongue in cheek but only somewhat. At many (non-idealogical) levels I reckon the current and future generations could actually benefit from our being positioned as a US State.

    Any views in P.ie world?
    Gay Byrne suggested this a few times back in the 80s. He also suggested giving Ireland back to the British. Britain is the special friend. Australia is the deputy sheriff. Ireland ??

    The British and Irish are closer culturally to the US than Europe however Ireland is already a member of the EU which will probably evolve into the "United States of Europe".
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  5. #25
    adrem adrem is offline

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    No - actually the purpose of the thread was simply to ask the question, consider the impacts and muse about the different elements from a range of perspectives.

    The purpose of p.ie is to discuss items of political interest - even (like in this case) if they are purely hypothetical and not in any way practical. Its not all about attacking a domestic political party or policy.

    Merle and Fir - grow up - if you don't value a thread don't post on it - if you don't agree with a thread post your reasoned comment rather than supercilious condescension.

    Back to the points - one issue for us is the fact that we are ceding more and more sovereignty to the EU. I'm pro the EU by the way. But it (in my view) begs the question - if we view being part of a bigger alignment or arrangement as being better for us than standing alone, then is it better to be EU, US or any other. Sweden (or any Nordic country) is an interesting one - if we were to pick our economic partner of choice taking social and cultural issues into account - which would we choose? I think the cultural gap between Anglo Saxon and Celtic nations versus the nordic nations or mediterranean nations would be difficult to overcome.

    The concept of our being the hub for US companies is one that we are regularly told is true today but is it really true and would it not be more real if we were a US State rather than an EU country?

    Yes - the death penalty, neutrality, broad foreign policy would all be big issues but for most joe/joan citizen they aren't impacted day to day by these (as a state could we set our own death penalty policy anyway?). Conscription would be a nasty side effect if it came back. Social welfare would be a big hit but again I think a State specific policy could be implemented (although we could then become the hobo State !!).

    Anyway - I know its not a runner Merle, Fir etc and I'm very sorry for daring to post a concept for theoretical consideration - having to use your creativity and imagination must be a real downer !
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  6. #26
    blinding blinding is offline

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    We should give them Fianna Fáil and its voters and if they don't nuke us for that then sure they must be the most forgiving people in the World.

    Mind you that would be morally too much to ask of any people.
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  7. #27
    Fir Bolg Fir Bolg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrem View Post
    No - actually the purpose of the thread was simply to ask the question, consider the impacts and muse about the different elements from a range of perspectives.

    The purpose of p.ie is to discuss items of political interest - even (like in this case) if they are purely hypothetical and not in any way practical. Its not all about attacking a domestic political party or policy.

    Merle and Fir - grow up - if you don't value a thread don't post on it - if you don't agree with a thread post your reasoned comment rather than supercilious condescension.

    Anyway - I know its not a runner Merle, Fir etc and I'm very sorry for daring to post a concept for theoretical consideration - having to use your creativity and imagination must be a real downer !
    You asked a question, we gave you an answer. Just because you didn't like it or it didn't fit into the hypothetical world you live/dream in doesn't invalidate our position on your question. I'm sure Merle, like me is fully grown up. If anything you are the one with the childish outlook.

    How about you use your undoubted creativity and infinite imagination and put it to good use and propose some solutions to the many problems (global and domestic) that exist today? You might surprise yourself.
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  8. #28
    adrem adrem is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fir Bolg View Post
    You asked a question, we gave you an answer. Just because you didn't like it or it didn't fit into the hypothetical world you live/dream in doesn't invalidate our position on your question. I'm sure Merle, like me is fully grown up. If anything you are the one with the childish outlook.

    How about you use your undoubted creativity and infinite imagination and put it to good use and propose some solutions to the many problems (global and domestic) that exist today? You might surprise yourself.
    Grand - you didn't actually - go back and look at your and Merle's responses. Your problem seems to be that you don't like hypotheses being considered. You are of course entitled to that position - my point is that you shouldn't negatively post on threads that consider such issues just because you believe them to be beneath you.
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  9. #29
    rubensni rubensni is offline

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    The Chinese: a grand bunch of lads

    If we could get a sort of Hong Kong-type relationship with the Chinese we'd be laughing. That way we'd be able to keep our limited democracy, free speech, etc. but when you factor in the booming Chinese economy and a huge property bubble I think we'd be right at home.

    Sure, the whole country would be turned in to a sort of permanent aircraft carrier for the hundreds of thousands of Chinese troops that would inevitably arrive here. Also the basing of nuclear weapons might raise a few eyebrows. But for the plain people of Ireland, the fall in the price of tea would adequately compensate for these minor inconveniences.
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  10. #30
    davewex davewex is offline

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    Hmmmmm this sounds like an advert on the radio!
    1 question, would the uk or the us ever want us when the eu are trying to get rid of us and spain and greece ect.

    but i like the idea
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