Originally Posted by LeDroit

The facts are getting a little indefensible for you alright.

Which facts exactly that in one system they correct and that hardly constitutes international practice? That you are totally ignorant of modern day disciplinary procedures for teachers? I have seen remedial students with more coherent arguments . Twaddle.

I was only talking about correcting being boring and tedious. The justification of teachers' holidays is more broad based. I pointed out that internationally they tend to be longer than private sector that's all. You have not disputed this nor the fact that just because one nation or indeed a few, ask their teachers to correct exams (finals not house) does not mean it's international practice.
I'm sure even in Poland they had a lot of time off!

Originally Posted by riker1969

I have seen remedial students with more coherent arguments.

Wow, nice attitude towards your students there, Teach. I see your respect for your students is at the heart of your motivation for being a teacher and it's nothing to do with long holidays and job for life.

Well, all in all, I think this will do real long term damage to the country!

I can only think of two positives from this deal. Firstly, it allows a Union Leadership who are used to doing backroom deals to get off the hook regarding genuine industrial action. Secondly, it gives breathing space to whoever is in Government RIGHT NOW! Of course, that is FF. As myself and many others predicted, they will do the minimum possible before handing over the real cuts to FG/Lab. The Government have about 18 months or so to run. That is just about as long as we can hold out without defaulting or cutting wages again...or both! The fact that this deal runs to 2014, will enable FF to turn around and claim to disgruntled public sector workers when their pay is inevitably cut, that FF would never have hurt them and the opposition are so dishonest for tearing up this agreement! Thats all this was about!!

And, make no mistake. The next government will have to tear up this deal. Our fiscal problems and budget deficit are so bad that theres no option. The Capital budget has been decimated. Taxes have risen and will climb further. Services have and will be cut back severely. However, there is only so many of those horrors that can be foisted on the tax payers of Ireland before attention will turn to the PS and the most protected sector of all....the Semi States!

The annoying aspect is, many of us on P.ie have advanced this arguement. However, the media and political consensus is overwhelmingly supportive of the deal. I can understand FFs support afterall it is their get out of jail card. And, nobody really expected a Union led by Jack O'connor to do anything to damage to Government. But, FGs support is rather baffling. I can only put it down to the fact that the majority in public life, just as in the general population are still in cloud Cuckoo land as regards how bad things are. I don't often agree with him, but Moore McDowell is the only person I have heard airing these views in the media.

As an aside. Given the rise of Labour, mostly due to populism and easy decisions. If they do achieve excellant results in the next election, would that make them less likely to cast aside the Unions and make tough choices as they might not want to lose any of their new seats???!!! Could we have an 1983 situation were elements in FG who desire hard early cuts are stymied by Labour elements who want Union members untouched???!!!

C

Originally Posted by LeDroit

Wow, nice attitude towards your students there, Teach. I see your respect for your students is at the heart of your motivation for being a teacher and it's nothing to do with long holidays and job for life.

Whatever you do dont deal with the main points I made but instead attack on a mundane point. Before you get all high and mighty -remedial students is a term in usage still today. It's not derogatory . Again you show your ignorance. Secondly,I was only pointing out that I know 12/13 yr old students with literacy issues who can write a coherent argument in a full paragraph-something you are incapable of doing.

Part of this deal is that the trade unions are to agree to reform of restrictive practices.
I await the outcome of that one with baited breath.
Watch now for the coat dragging.
The endlessly drawn out negotiations so beloved of union "bruvvers".
The disingenuous clap trap and the lies, evasions and general lack of good will by people who are being paid by taxpayers to perform a service.
A service which they are increasingly failing to deliver.
The public service now mainly exists to pay the wages of their staff.
Any service that might slip through the netting is purely accidental.
Between unions,knackers and health and safety inspectors this country is fooked.

Originally Posted by cry freedom

Part of this deal is that the trade unions are to agree to reform of restrictive practices.
I await the outcome of that one with baited breath.
Watch now for the coat dragging.
The endlessly drawn out negotiations so beloved of union "bruvvers".
The disingenuous clap trap and the lies, evasions and general lack of good will by people who are being paid by taxpayers to perform a service.
A service which they are increasingly failing to deliver.
The public service now mainly exists to pay the wages of their staff.
Any service that might slip through the netting is purely accidental.
Between unions,knackers and health and safety inspectors this country is fooked.

there will be no reform in health and second/third level education as the deal was rejected and speaking for teachers WE WILL NOT be engaging in the extra hour or have other conditions imposed on us

Originally Posted by jacko

there will be no reform in health and second/third level education as the deal was rejected and speaking for teachers WE WILL NOT be engaging in the extra hour or have other conditions imposed on us

Then the government should withdraw its guarantee not to impose further cuts or redundancies.
There are two side to a deal!

The deal was another kick to touch by this failed Government.

There will be "unforseen circumstances" coming down the line.

There will be wage cuts, redundancies, short time etc or more definitely increased taxes / pension levies.

Originally Posted by thebig C

I can only think of two positives from this deal. Firstly, it allows a Union Leadership who are used to doing backroom deals to get off the hook regarding genuine industrial action. Secondly, it gives breathing space to whoever is in Government RIGHT NOW! Of course, that is FF. As myself and many others predicted, they will do the minimum possible before handing over the real cuts to FG/Lab. The Government have about 18 months or so to run. That is just about as long as we can hold out without defaulting or cutting wages again...or both! The fact that this deal runs to 2014, will enable FF to turn around and claim to disgruntled public sector workers when their pay is inevitably cut, that FF would never have hurt them and the opposition are so dishonest for tearing up this agreement! Thats all this was about!!

And, make no mistake. The next government will have to tear up this deal. Our fiscal problems and budget deficit are so bad that theres no option. The Capital budget has been decimated. Taxes have risen and will climb further. Services have and will be cut back severely. However, there is only so many of those horrors that can be foisted on the tax payers of Ireland before attention will turn to the PS and the most protected sector of all....the Semi States!


C

+1

The cosy cartel of FF and overpaid Union leadership have plotted well on this.