Never mind Brady, Martin's resignation is the one that really matters.

[corelli]

Precisely what are these great pressures that you speak of?
Perhaps you could list them all out.

How can a man who is himself despondent ,on his own admission ,about the church give any hope?

I believe Archbishop Martin is a source of division and disunity within the Irish church and as such is somebody out of his depth sincerely trying to do his best but making serious errors.

To be fair, I don't think he has erred. He just does not think like most of the Hierarchy here and is not afraid to speak his mind. The others would seem to be sheep. It's fairly obvious he wants a clean out of all the "pre Diarmuid" Bishops, and that goes down well not at all. I actually think he is in the right, though I would agree that he is highly politicised and quite obviously ambitious.

Gentleman's bet he gets the Red Hat?

[Old Mr Grouser]

Where do you get that from?
Is there something wrong with trying to preserve the good name of the Church?

Would you not try to preserve your own good name?

Im not on here to get into some church bashing rant which you are clearly angling up for.

Theres been plenty of that and
If that is your point readers on this thread would prefer if you went elsewhere.

This is a thread about Archbishop Martin and his suitability for his job..

Sorry, FM, but I have to agree with the Archbishop.

"There are still strong forces which would prefer that the truth did not emerge.

The truth will make us free, even when that truth is uncomfortable.

There are signs of subconscious denial on the part of many about the extent of the abuse which occurred within the Church of Jesus Christ in Ireland and how it was covered up.

There are other signs of rejection of a sense of responsibility for what had happened.

There are worrying signs that despite solid regulations and norms these are not being followed with the rigour required."Archdiocese of Dublin - 10/5/2010 The future of the Church in Ireland

[Newsy]

Precisely what are these great pressures that you speak of?
Perhaps you could list them all out.

How can a man who is himself despondent ,on his own admission ,about the church give any hope?

I believe Archbishop Martin is a source of division and disunity within the Irish church and is perhaps out of his depth but sincerely trying to do his best and making serious errors.

There have been tremendous pressures to keep the scandal of abuse within the Church, secret. The Church and some of its people, still find it extremely difficult to all such abuses come to the fore.

It is only through confessing, in the language of the Church, and healing that renewal can emerge.

Jesus, on the Cross appeared as though there was no hope. However, in the spirit of Christainity, humility is the essense of hope. The figure of Jesus on the Cross, following 2000 years later.....gives tremendous hope.

[Tomas Mor]

Why does Martin talk about dark forces, but not naming them . We are told child protection guidlines are in force in every diocese, if it is not true then let us be told. What is the state of the Church in his own archdiocese, some person told me that pastoral councils do not exist in many parishes there, and Martin does not care. High flying and media are his forte, he is known as Martin De Tours among some priests. He seems to me to be full of his own ego, a darling of the media like Comiskey was. Its only a matter of time until same media turn on him. He made a remark on Prime Time after the Murphy report that only 2 bishops "bothered" to ring him. He gives the impression of carrying his cross alone, soon he may develop the stigmata.

[Old Mr Grouser]

Why does Martin talk about dark forces, but not naming them . We are told child protection guidlines are in force in every diocese, if it is not true then let us be told. ...

1. Child abuse isn't the only thing that's wrong with the Irish Church.
2. The problems aren't confined to the clergy. By and large I would still trust a priest; I'd worry more about some of their lay helpers.

To quote again from Archdiocese of Dublin - 10/5/2010 The future of the Church in Ireland "One of the initiatives in which I place much trust in the pastoral programme of the Archdiocese of Dublin is the distribution this year of the Gospel of Saint Luke throughout the Archdiocese." - and the roguery of the pharisees crops up a number of times in that Gospel.

For example in chapter 16, verses 13 to 15:" ' ... You cannot serve God and money.' The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him. And he said to them, 'You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.'"

[The Field Marshal]

As to feeling alienated from the Church, I grew up highly religious, but became alienated from it in the mid 1990s. But even though I was not a Mass goer I still had some sense of identification with it. Yesterday I did something I never imagined even thinking of. I began to consider actually formally resigning once and for all from it, and joining the Church of Ireland. That had been unthinkable before now. Now it is.

Why dont you join Archbishop Martins new church : the Church of Jesus Christ in Ireland.

It might just be the thing for you.


Quote from Archbishop Martin

"There are signs of subconscious denial on the part of many about the extent of the abuse which occurred within the Church of Jesus Christ in Ireland and how it was covered up.

Archdiocese of Dublin - 10/5/2010 The future of the Church in Ireland

[The Field Marshal]

1. Child abuse isn't the only thing that's wrong with the Irish Church.
2. The problems aren't confined to the clergy. By and large I would still trust a priest; I'd worry more about some of their lay helpers.

To quote again from Archdiocese of Dublin - 10/5/2010 The future of the Church in Ireland "One of the initiatives in which I place much trust in the pastoral programme of the Archdiocese of Dublin is the distribution this year of the Gospel of Saint Luke throughout the Archdiocese." - and the roguery of the pharisees crops up a number of times in that Gospel.

For example in chapter 16, verses 13 to 15:" ' ... You cannot serve God and money.' The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him. And he said to them, 'You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.'"

[The Field Marshal]

There have been tremendous pressures to keep the scandal of abuse within the Church, secret. The Church and some of its people, still find it extremely difficult to all such abuses come to the fore.

It is only through confessing, in the language of the Church, and healing that renewal can emerge.

Jesus, on the Cross appeared as though there was no hope. However, in the spirit of Christainity, humility is the essense of hope. The figure of Jesus on the Cross, following 2000 years later.....gives tremendous hope.

Do you really have to sermonize?.


I note you dont answer the question about what ,or where ,or who all these dark forces are.

Nor do you address my criticisms of Archbishop Martins successful efforts
at fostering a spirit of disunity and division within the Irish catholic church.

[Old Mr Grouser]

Why dont you join Archbishop Martins new church : the Church of Jesus Christ in Ireland.

the plain truth is that over these last thirty or forty years a big chunk has been moving away from Jesus Christ.

Have a look at some of Miceal Ledwith videos; they're on Google. He didn't suddenly go 'off-message' when he left Maynooth. And he probably wasn't alone in his 'advanced thinking' - not at Maynooth, nor on the International Theological Commission.

"Why such discouragement?

The second and deeper root of my discouragement is that I do not believe that people have a true sense of the crisis of faith that exists in Ireland.

We have invested in structures of religious education which despite enormous goodwill are not producing the results that they set out to do.

Our young people are among the most catechised in Europe but among the least evangelised."
Archdiocese of Dublin - 10/5/2010 The future of the Church in Ireland

[The Field Marshal]

the plain truth is that over these last thirty or forty years a big chunk has been moving away from Jesus Christ.

Have a look at some of Miceal Ledwith videos; they're on Google. He didn't suddenly go 'off-message' when he left Maynooth. And he probably wasn't alone in his 'advanced thinking' - not at Maynooth, nor on the International Theological Commission.

"Why such discouragement?

The second and deeper root of my discouragement is that I do not believe that people have a true sense of the crisis of faith that exists in Ireland.

We have invested in structures of religious education which despite enormous goodwill are not producing the results that they set out to do.

Our young people are among the most catechised in Europe but among the least evangelised."
Archdiocese of Dublin - 10/5/2010 The future of the Church in Ireland

You picked a strange example in Michael Ledwith.



His thinking was so advanced it got him laicised out of the priesthood.
Michael Ledwith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.