Fall out of the Green's 'Crap' Rotation

[adamirer]

Beyond the issue of Gormley resigning, theres wider consequences for the Government and the public perception of it, coming out of the Greens swapshop.

Lets assume the reports are right. Gormley steps down to Super Junior - remaining at Cabinet. Cuffe goes to Environment, White replaces Sargent, Ryan remains in place. Gogarty gets nothing.

Cowen has O'Dea and Cullen - minimum - to replace. He probably won't go too much further than that as he doesn't want to precipitate a heave against his leadership by disgruntled ex-cabinet members.

If he does, It's O'Cuiv and Dept Community that is at risk. He may also chop up Arts, Sports and Tourism - with Tourism going to DETE, Arts to DCENR, Community, Rural & Sports to Environment, Gaeltacht to Taoiseachs - and forming two new Depts, for Public Service Reform and Recovery (I personally don't think this will happen - more likely Gormely will take a Junior role at Taoiseach/Finance for Public Service reform.. but it has been mooted).

Cowen loses one Junior Ministerial slot in this Green grab, he no doubt had in mind to salve some of the egos on the back benches. Of course, Cowen could simply say 'no'. Does anyone really see the Greens pulling out on an issue the public will view as utterly unimportant and self serving?

Which leads to public perception. The greens will be viewed, even if they think its unfair, as gombeens for this. It smacks, regardless of their motives, as jobs for the boys, cronyism, and the greens plumping up their pensions.

They have given FG & Lab an open goal and more moral high ground to hit them with. Kenny & Gilmore will exploit this, highlighting to the public the Ministerial pension issue, the plumping of nests and bring in the failed green cllrs appointments like Davidson, Burrell and the attempted job for deBurca as further examples of the greens losing their vaunted principles.

On the other hand, if they DON'T get what they want, the greens are going to look like fools. Gormley, as leader, has to be at cabinet. If Cowen decided tell them No, what could the greens do? They can't credibly pull out over this, they'd be a laughing stock and the grassroots would be livid for going, not on a matter of honour, but for what will be seen as cronyism...

The funny thing is, I dont think the greens really see the problem!

Cowen won't appreciate this at all... fun times.

[krusty]

Beyond the issue of Gormley resigning, theres wider consequences for the Government and the public perception of it, coming out of the Greens swapshop.

Lets assume the reports are right. Gormley steps down to Super Junior - remaining at Cabinet. Cuffe goes to Environment, White replaces Sargent, Ryan remains in place. Gogoarty gets nothing.

Cowen has O'Dea and Cullen - minimum - to replace. He probably won't go too much further than that as he doesn't want to precipitate a heave against his leadership by disgruntled ex-cabinet members.

If he does, It's O'Cuiv and Dept Community that is at risk. He may also chop up Arts, Sports and Tourism - with Tourism going to DETE, Arts to DCENR, Community, Rural & Sports to Environment, Gaeltacht to Taoiseachs - and forming two new Depts, for Public Service Reform and Recovery (I personally don't think this will happen - more likely Gormely will take a Junior role at Taoiseach/Finance for Public Service reform.. but it has been mooted).

Cowen loses one Junior Ministerial slot in this Green grab, he not doubt had in mind to salve some of the egos on the back benches. Of course, Cowen could simply say 'no'. Does anyone really see the Greens pulling out on an issue the public will view as utterly unimportant and self serving?

Which leads to public perception. The greens will be viewed, even if they think its unfair, as gombeens for this. It smacks, regardless of their motives, as jobs for the boys, cronyism, and the greens plumping up their pensions.

They have given FG & Lab an open goal and more moral high ground to hit them with. Kenny & Gilmore will exploit this, highlighting to the public the Ministerial pension issue, the plumping of nests and bring in the failed green cllrs appointments like Davidson, Burrell and the attempted job for deBurca as further examples of the greens losing their vaunted principles.

On the other hand, if they DON'T get what they want, the greens are going to look like fools. Gormley, as leader, has to be at cabinet. If Cowen decided tell them No, what could the greens do? Thet can credibly pull out over this, they'd be a laughing stock and the grassroots would be livid for going, not on a matter of honour, but for what will be seen as cronyism...

The funny thing is, I dont think the greens really see the problem!

Cowen won't appreciate this at all... fun times.

When the Greens said after the resignations of Willie O'Dea and Trevor Sargent that they were going to get back to the real business of Job Creation I didn't realise they meant Job Creation for the Green Party .

[Malbekh]

I think this thread deserves to stay in play rather than being closed or merged into http://www.politics.ie/current-affai...g-cabinet.html or any other reshuffle thread.

[Sync]

Agree Malbekh. I don't think the Greens are doing this with an eye on the pensions, I think they genuinely believe that pretty much anyone can be a cabinet minister. Just a total disrespect for the institutions and the electorate.

Whatever about FF bankrupting the store, at least they understand that the store has to have a manager who's role doesn't rotate between the shelf stacker and the owner.

[LDF]

There isn't a hope in hell of the Greens getting the super junior for public sector reform - that is a FF baby.

What does the constitution say about this? I know there is a maximum of 15 voting positions in cabinet. Is there a maximum number of non-voting positions?

[EoinMn]

Cowen won't appreciate this at all... fun times.

Cowen was involved in negoiations to form the coalition in 2007. I think an agreement to swap Cuffe for Gormley may have been made at that time. If that is the case, (but I'm only guessing) It would be wrong of Cowen to renege on the deal now.

[FakeViking]

There isn't a hope in hell of the Greens getting the super junior for public sector reform - that is a FF baby.

What does the constitution say about this? I know there is a maximum of 15 voting positions in cabinet. Is there a maximum number of non-voting positions?

There's no limit. They are not mentioned. They should be known as "Pretend Ministers".

THE GOVERNMENT
Article 28
1. The Government shall consist of not less than seven and not more than fifteen members who shall be appointed by the President in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution.

[adamirer]

Cowen was involved in negoiations to form the coalition in 2007. I think an agreement to swap Cuffe for Gormley may have been made at that time. If that is the case, (but I'm only guessing) It would be wrong of Cowen to renege on the deal now.

I dunno, it's never leaked yet... you'd have to think this was an internal green job, as not just Cowen, but Dempsey, Martin and others were involved too, and the seeking of an enxtra post is a bit brazen. 3 out of 6 greens at the cabinet table though? I guess they saw Harney being 50% of the PDs at it.. so...

[Emerald Green]

Agree Malbekh. I don't think the Greens are doing this with an eye on the pensions, I think they genuinely believe that pretty much anyone can be a cabinet minister. Just a total disrespect for the institutions and the electorate.

Whatever about FF bankrupting the store, at least they understand that the store has to have a manager who's role doesn't rotate between the shelf stacker and the owner.

Would they be wrong? When they see the likes of Coughlan as Taniste and Min for ETE, they would find it hard to argue that it takes someone with certain skills to be a cabinet minister.

[QuizMaster]

It's funny to see everyone ranting on about pensions. Is that all you can think of? Suppose the Greens announce they will not be taking their pensions? Will that then make everything alright? It is quite likely to happen you know. It's the sort of thing the Greens could come out with.

As for Ciaran Cuffe becoming Minister for the Environment: it's a risky move alright, but doing nothing is not a winning move, that's for sure. It would be up to Ciaran to make something of it. I'd say he could have a better public image than John Gormley. Ciaran is qualified in town planning. He lectured in Bolton Street before taking up the politics game.
Also he has that Kennedy connection, let's not forget. The right PR people could make hay there.
Oh and he's very able. He's not "just anyone" or "a nobody". Not by any means. Wait and see.