Allegedly a tax raise would scare away the workers somewhere

[goosebump]

Whelan said such a move (extra 10% income tax on earners over 60k) would be of limited benefit - essentially bringing in approx €1bn. He views this as of limited value because we have a deficit of €20bn. Yet he makes no allusion to the €4bn we need to get out of the up-coming budget. Clearly €1bn extra revenue would be of considerable value in this context.

That was €1bn exists in purely mathematical terms. In reality, the law of diminishing returns would kick in and the net benefit would be considerably smaller.

What everyone seems to be ignoring in this debate is that we have experimented with high marginal tax rates in the past (the 80s) and it was a complete fukking disaster.

[Albert Aherne]

We had the same old rubbish in the late '80s.Just not worth the effort to go after the wealthy because (1) There's no large quantity of wealth like that in Ireland and (2) It will cause a flight of capital. Well after the astonishing revelations of the tax amnesties from the '90s on ,we found out that in todays values , countless tens billions of wealth existed and the state was deprived of billions in tax because the governments of the day had no political will to prosecue. the wealthy criminals .The ony people persecuted were the paye sector and if the criminals in the the private sector had payed their fair share, the tax rates would have been far lower for everybody.On a weekly basis poorer people were gaoled for social welfare fraud ,while gaolings for tax fraud were unknownThe only reason the vast majority of people pay tax is because of the fear of prosecution and huge fines or if they (like the paye sector) have no choice in the matter.No matter how low the tax rate is ,people will whinge and say it's too much and if allowed to ,will hide their wealth.It's nonsense to say that taxable wealth will "disappear" if the rate is too high.Tax take depends firstly on the enforcement of the tax law.None of us would pay tax (or only very little) if we had the choice. And if we do have a few of the wealthy abandoning the country,let them leave their Irish passports and citizenship in the airport on their way out and that will soften a few coughs and,perhaps, force a rethink.

[sandar]

well said goosebump

[X-ray]

The more you reduce the capacity of private wealth to create economic growth, the more you rely on the State to create economic growth, which basically places you in the foothills of Socialism.

The private sector is banjoed. The banks are done for and getting public funding on a biblical scale, we are not in the "foothills" of socialism are are at the base camp of Everest. The days of private capital calling the shots in Ireland are over, the free market had its chance and completely blew it. We are looking at a command economy until NAMA comes to an end, probably most of our working lives. For that period high taxes and extremely tight state control on business will be exercied. Its no good playing the free capital markets cards now after begging for state funding for banking. The rest of us are not interesting in the promises of free drinks at the bar any more, private businesses are not to be trusted to be let off the lead again. They ruined the country once.

[sandar]

x-ray if the government are paying money for shares or loans then that doesnt impigne on capitalist princip[als

[X-ray]

That was €1bn exists in purely mathematical terms. In reality, the law of diminishing returns would kick in and the net benefit would be considerably smaller.

What everyone seems to be ignoring in this debate is that we have experimented with high marginal tax rates in the past (the 80s) and it was a complete fukking disaster.

Thats because half the country was banking in the cammen islands and the rest of us on PAYE were carrying them. Let all pay now and pay fairly. I would rather bankrupt the state that put up with a load of smart arses dinning out on the rest of us again.

[X-ray]

We had the same old rubbish in the late '80s.Just not worth the effort to go after the wealthy because (1) There's no large quantity of wealth like that in Ireland and (2) It will cause a flight of capital. Well after the astonishing revelations of the tax amnesties from the '90s on ,we found out that in todays values , countless tens billions of wealth existed and the state was deprived of billions in tax because the governments of the day had no political will to prosecue. the wealthy criminals .The ony people persecuted were the paye sector and if the criminals in the the private sector had payed their fair share, the tax rates would have been far lower for everybody.On a weekly basis poorer people were gaoled for social welfare fraud ,while gaolings for tax fraud were unknownThe only reason the vast majority of people pay tax is because of the fear of prosecution and huge fines or if they (like the paye sector) have no choice in the matter.No matter how low the tax rate is ,people will whinge and say it's too much and if allowed to ,will hide their wealth.It's nonsense to say that taxable wealth will "disappear" if the rate is too high.Tax take depends firstly on the enforcement of the tax law.None of us would pay tax (or only very little) if we had the choice. And if we do have a few of the wealthy abandoning the country,let them leave their Irish passports and citizenship in the airport on their way out and that will soften a few coughs and,perhaps, force a rethink.

+1

[Albert Aherne]

What everyone seems to be ignoring in this debate is that we have experimented with high marginal tax rates in the past (the 80s) and it was a complete fukking disaster.

It was only a disaster for those compelled to pay i.e. paye sector,It was wonderful for the criminal wealthy,the professionals and the self employed who payed bugger all and weren't compelled to.

[sandar]

Thats because half the country was banking in the cammen islands and the rest of us on PAYE were carrying them. Let all pay now and pay fairly. I would rather bankrupt the state that put up with a load of smart arses dinning out on the rest of us again.

yes but the workers on the avergae indutrail wage who would lsoe their house wouldnt thanks......

[X-ray]

x-ray if the government are paying money for shares or loans then that doesnt impigne on capitalist princip[als

my maths is poor, I thought when you gave 3.5 billion euro for shares in a company worth 2 billion euro you got more than 25% of the equity.

Funny capitalism.

We have bought AIB and BoI many times over and still don't own them. We are allowed own Anglo though because its utterly useless.

Watch AIB sail off again without repaying us, the second time in less than a generation it went bankrupt. It will surely do the same again before I retire. My only hope is that some german nerd in the EU takes exception to them and takes a chain saw to the lot of them.

That is not capitalism. It American they would hang them. It is Irish crony capitalism. It is a joke, I would sooner let a load of commies run the country than me feiners talking about capitalism. They would not know what capitalism was if a brick of gold landed on them.