Class in Ireland, 2009

[DerekOwens]

Curiosity and the hope of an actually meaningful discussion is to blame for this thread.

Back in the 50s, a judge dismissed a case (between a farmer and a labourer if I recall) on the grounds that Ireland had no class conflict at all. This was, of course, tosh, but fast-forward for a second.

In Ireland 2009, I see tons of class conflict bubbling up, whether in the letters pages of the Indo, on the streets, or threads like this (http://www.politics.ie/health-social...have-kids.html). I'm curious as to whether people see class conflict in contemporary Ireland, and in what forms.

I'm also curious about how people define class, whether by education, disposable income, occupation or anything else.

Keen for everyone's tuppence worth!

[bactrian]

There is a class system in Ireland ,but, it is self imposed.

There are three classes :
1.The very, very rich . This class is defined solely by their level of wealth.

The other two classes are defined by their expectations.

2.There is the "I have a problem. I expect I shall have to do something to solve it " class

and

3.There is the "I have a problem. I expect someone to solve it for me " class.

The most recent example of this divide that comes to my mind is what just happened in my local school.

The local national "free" school , finding that the Department of Education grant did not cover all necessary basic needs asked the parents of children in the school to make a modest voluntary contribution. The asked contribution was modest and was "per family". In another nearby school the "voluntary contribution" is greater and is "per child".

The school collected 1/5 (a fifth) of what it would expect if all parents had contributed.

Some parents gave more than they were asked to.

Some parents gave a lesser contribution with a note saying that it was all they could afford.

I would reckon that there is another fifth of parents who genuinely could not afford the "voluntary contribution".

The rest ,knew that the school was underfunded,knew that any money received was to be spent on educating children in the school and knew that their child would benefit. Their attitude is that "someone" (not them) should fix the problem.

[toughbutfair]

A lower class person doesn't want to work, believes they are entitled to be supported by the state, never cared for school, doesn't take care of their children, what little money they have they spend on booze and fags, live in a council estate or get rent subsidy and enjoy a fight when they get drunk (which is often), they also think joyriding is a hobby and tend to have children very young (first of many).

[Mitsui]

A lower class person doesn't want to work, believes they are entitled to be supported by the state, never cared for school, doesn't take care of their children, what little money they have they spend on booze and fags, live in a council estate or get rent subsidy and enjoy a fight when they get drunk (which is often), they also think joyriding is a hobby and tend to have children very young (first of many).

Now you're confusing the issue. Apart from the bit about "what little money they have they spend on booze and fags, live in a council estate or get rent subsidy", that sounds like several quite wealthy people I know of.

They spend a relatively small part of their very large amount of money on booze, live in ugly but palatial homes and don't smoke, but (in that much of their money came from dodgy contracts acquired through political connections and convenient tax-breaks established for their ill-bred ilk) also rely on the State for much of their income.

Are you saying they're lower class?

[menapia]

I once worked with an idiot who claimed he was middle class because he had a mortgage.
On the other hand I believe Ireland is the most class conscious country in Europe, which is based on intelectual snobbery, the mantra from most of the Public Sector workers in the current crisis is, We have third level education therefore this entitles us to the silly salaries/ pensions we are on.

[DerekOwens]

Now you're confusing the issue. Apart from the bit about "what little money they have they spend on booze and fags, live in a council estate or get rent subsidy", that sounds like several quite wealthy people I know of.

They spend a relatively small part of their very large amount of money on booze, live in ugly but palatial homes and don't smoke, but (in that much of their money came from dodgy contracts acquired through political connections and convenient tax-breaks established for their ill-bred ilk) also rely on the State for much of their income.

Are you saying they're lower class?

Ignore the troll.

[YoungLiberal]

Ireland is enormousely class concious. People's 'class' seems to be based on a few certain things:

Where you live, what your parents do for a living and their upbrining. However, education makes the above pretty much irrelevant. If you've a good education (University/4th level) and a good job, no one really cares where you were brought up or what your parents did for a living.

Now before say, what about manners? what about politeness, that's all included in what your parents do/did for a living and their own upbrining.

It's hard to define, but it shapes the society we live in.

[controller]

If you want examples of class snobbery...........just look at these forums. It beggers belief the selfish attitudes of some people here

[cctvstar]

A lower class person doesn't want to work, believes they are entitled to be supported by the state, never cared for school, doesn't take care of their children, what little money they have they spend on booze and fags, live in a council estate or get rent subsidy and enjoy a fight when they get drunk (which is often), they also think joyriding is a hobby and tend to have children very young (first of many).

On the other hand you have just demonstrated as have many on these forums how much class they "have". Ignorant snob.

[Cael]

The Working Class have just woken up to the fact that they are still the Working Class - despite ten years of borrowing to maintain a Middle Class lifestyle. Cant do that anymore, so reality breaks through. I have no doubt that many will turn to Communism and the nationalisation of Ireland's land, natural resources and banks and vital industries.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZO3PJd2h2k&feature=related"]YouTube- A Red Dawn[/ame]