Jack O Connor on Radio 1 now

[sharper]

"The earnings index is designed to measure the quarterly trend in average weekly earnings. It [COLOR=Red]excludes the effect of changes in employment composition[/COLOR] implicitly reflected in the corresponding [COLOR=Red]absolute average earnings [/COLOR]estimates."


in other words if you have more lower paid staff because older ones have retired they will get rid of that with stats. Its not an average where you divide the total by the number working there.

I would like to see the median and the absolute average figure, why do I suspect they have dropped even before the levy?

X-ray your reading comprehension is absolutely shocking. The earnings index is a separate section of the report and nobody has been talking about that part of it at all.

[Proposition Joe]

Here's the link to the podcast.

Marion eventually got Jack to nail his colours to the mast on tax policy: a new third rate of 60%, brought about by increasing the income levies.

[X-ray]

X-ray your reading comprehension is absolutely shocking. The earnings index is a separate section of the report and nobody has been talking about that part of it at all.

I am talking about it.

[sharper]

I am talking about it.

It's quite clear you confused the explanation of the indices and the explanation of the average figures i.e. "Its not an average where you divide the total by the number working there".

Of course the indices are not the averages. The averages are the averages!

It would say more for your honestly if you'd just admit that but I guess that's just not possible.

[X-ray]

It's quite clear you confused the explanation of the indices and the explanation of the average figures i.e. "Its not an average where you divide the total by the number working there".

Of course the indices are not the averages. The averages are the averages!

It would say more for your honestly if you'd just admit that but I guess that's just not possible.

The averages are not averages though, they include somethings and exclude others without explaining why other than to say they are "unavailable".
Nonsense, they figures are totally weighted and alter to grades and all sorts of things to a point where they are meaningless. Just tell us the total spend on wages for the year and the total number of employees.

[sharper]

The averages are not averages though, they include somethings and exclude others without explaining why other than to say they are "unavailable".

They don't include the HSE because the HSE did not give them the data.

Nonsense, they figures are totally weighted and alter to grades and all sorts of things to a point where they are meaningless. Just tell us the total spend on wages for the year and the total number of employees.

Averages: Average weekly earnings reflect the mix of employees on different pay rates.
Average weekly earnings are calculated by:
- deriving average weekly earnings for each staff category, distinguished by each relevant
organisation;
- weighting these earnings by employment in each category to derive the average weekly
earnings for each relevant organisation;
- weighting these weekly earnings by the employment of relevant organisation to obtain the average weekly earnings for each sector;
- weighting the sectoral average weekly earnings by the total employment of all
organisations in the sector to obtain the overall quarterly average weekly earnings.

I'm sorry X-Ray but if you think these weightings are in any way meaningless it just demonstrates you don't understand what you're reading.

I have no idea why you persist in this mode of thought that if you don't understand the work of a professional body staffed by experts in their field then that means they must be wrong.

The CSO know how to calculate averages.

[hammer]

Turd (sic) rate of tax for high paid civil servants & union officials ? 60% ? Surely for these high paid individuals we could stretch to 80% ?

The public unions & the public wouldn`t mind in the slighest.

High paid civil servants & union officials DONT create jobs..........so it would be COOL

[X-ray]

The CSO know how to calculate averages.

Just not health ones or ones with levies attached.

[cactusflower]

I thought he was excellent, he wants a deal, he wants to be able to bring something back to PS workers that involves pain but also shows there is a wider context to what is happening. It is quite clear he is not going to radicalise the situation any more than is required, he is trying to prevent chaos not cause it.

The government should wake up and stop trying to corner people. There is only a week or two to decide what way they want to play this, once partnership is finally buried it is gone for years.

The media et al should also turn down the volume and stop trying to panic people and cause division, there is an orderly and civilised way of going about this.

There are two ways of going about the readjustment of this economy, in an orderly agreed fashion that is as fair as possible or in a dis-organised forced way. If there is a dramatic attack on ordinary people it will not matter what jack o connor says, if he does not strike the real SIPTU will.


I know which one I would like to see.

We need strong unions now, but I can't see how someone like that can lead one. What was all the praise for Cowen and Lenihan ?

[sharper]

Just not health ones or ones with levies attached.

The CSO tracks gross incomes in that report, they "know" how to deal with levies but that's not within the scope of the report.

They also "know" how to report on health incomes when they have them. Perhaps you should ask the HSE why they aren't.

If you read through their site you'll see the CSO produces a report using the same methodology every quarter of every year for comparative analysis. That's why they track gross incomes.