Both FG and FF corrupt. When will we acknowledge it?

[disgruntledcitizen]

Your being a bit hard to be honest although some of your points are correct. People do tend to vote for family/regonial loyalty reasons over reasoned debate. That FF/FG are both corrupt is clear. People who look away while their capital is bombed cannot be trusted. However FF have royally shafted the Irish people and need to be given a sound kicking this time around. FG may be unpalatable to me but they are definitely a better option that the current government. This is why I advise my republican family to vote SF,Left and then FG.

such sweeping generalizations are utterly wrong and stupid, and about as accurate as saying that all all Sinn Fein members are terrorists and killers, obliviously something they are not, however there is a certain amount of SF members that are / were, in the same way there are a certain amount of FF/FG/Lab members whom are corrupt.

Corruption happens the world over and in all political parties and organizations, what matters is how it is dealt with when discovered. This i believe is one of the key differences between FF and FG.

FF are far more tolerant of same and in some cases it almost seems a badge of honor, members seem incapable of resigning when caught and are only pushed when the body FF senses they are more of a liability than a benefit, even then they can be accepted back into the party when the powers that be feel they can get away with it.

FG on the other hand take a more direct and blunt line on the matter, the likes of Lowry are shown the door and do not get taken back, FG have had far far fewer members implicated in dodgy deals and corruption over the years at all levels of political power, perhaps some of this is because the opportunities haven't presented themselves as much as they have to FF members but i also believe that FF as a party is more attractive to those whom are more inclined to the cute whoore-ism and me fein attitude.

SF does seem to have far far lower levels corruption that i'll grant you but there are other unsavory aspects to the behavior of some of its members, some every bit as nasty and damaging to society

[disgruntledcitizen]

FF and FG are as corrupt as each other. We are where we are because of individuals looking after themselves based on lies by scum such as FF and FG.

can you back up such a claim or is it just part of an anti FF / FG bias ?

there is plenty of documented cases of FF corruption from local councilors to Taoiseachs, and every strata in between. I doubt very much you'll be able to find 10 - 20% as much documented cases of FG corruption as you will FF

[merle haggard]

the Irish system of governance and law itself is corrupt . Thats why corruption thrives . It tends to thrive a bit more under FF but thats about it . Theres a garda siochana, a DPP , theres a CAB , theres a tax office , theres even a media . Most of these people simply look the other way in deference to whichever crook and his chums happen to be in power . Beacuse they themselves are morally and spiritually corrupt .

[hiding behind a poster]

My answer might upset you. I see fit to insult political parties and not voters.

Well let's look again at what you said:

the whole mis-guided blind allegiance to idiots cos Mammy and Daddy said so....has made me realise what is probably blindingly obvious to outsiders.

We must vote on what we feel is right and not on what we inherited. We need to shake off our almost intractable beliefs and analyse things as individuals.

That is an insult to voters, not parties. Its a gratuitous insult to anyone who votes in a different way to what you want. No more, no less.

FF and FG are as corrupt as each other.

No they are not. In any large organisations you will get corruption, and bad eggs. The difference lies in how such individuals are treated when found out. In FG's case, when Lowry was found to be on the take he was kicked out of the Cabinet, out of the Parliamentary Party, and out of the party itself, in jig-time. Meanwhile in FF the likes of the Flynns, Ellis, Foley, Lawlor, Burke, Ahern and Haughey were not just kept, they were defended and embraced for their corruption. So when you claim the two parties to be "as corrupt as each other" you are WRONG.

We are where we are because of individuals looking after themselves based on lies by scum such as FF and FG.

No we are not. We are where we are because suicidal economic mismanagement by FF has left us with a collapsed banking sector and a €15bn structural budget deficit. They were in power for 12 years - trying to blame an opposition party is just so much bull.

I know your beloved Garret Fitzgerald and Dukes disagree with the current muppets of FG.

Neither Fitzgerald nor Dukes is "beloved" to me - and anyway, their disagreement with FG is on one policy issue. That's all.

You know what...I'm nearly broken down by what you rapists of Ireland do (nearly) Shame on you.

Now what are you alleging? Seriously, I don't know what that remark is supposed to mean. But if you reckon the last FG-led government, which left office with a record of creating 1,000 jobs a week, with a record of producing the first budget surplus in 25 years, and with the lowest inflation rate in the EU was somehow "raping" Ireland, then you really haven't a clue.

[flavirostris]

When will Kev408 stop starting pointless trolling threads and dragging other threads off topic

[neiphin]

My answer might upset you. I see fit to insult political parties and not voters.

FF and FG are as corrupt as each other. We are where we are because of individuals looking after themselves based on lies by scum such as FF and FG.

I know your beloved Garret Fitzgerald and Dukes disagree with the current muppets of FG.

You know what...I'm nearly broken down by what you rapists of Ireland do (nearly) Shame on you.

i think kev you let ur guard down and exposed yourself as a ff ******************** stirrer, make up a load of crap and dirty everyone else

i hold no graw for garret the good, and dukes with his tallagh strategy was good for the state but nearly killed of the party