"Smacking is Torture" --World Organisation Against Torture

[Seán Mac Stiofán]

One consequence of the Ryan Report is that every crank with an agenda has come out of the wood work. This group really irritate me, letter in the Irish Times (of course):

Madam, – In Ireland, teachers who administer corporal punishment are liable to be charged with assault under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997, whilst parents are immune from such laws and can physically assault and humiliate their children in the name of “reasonable chastisement”. In 2005 the World Organisation Against Torture registered a complaint against Ireland in this respect and the European Committee of Social Rights found our current legislation to be in violation of children’s rights. Our Government’s response was to promise an eventual ban on corporal punishment.

Hitting a child is never in the child’s best interests. Children are entitled to the same protection from physical assaults as adults. While corporal punishment is legal and acceptable, children are deprived of the positive parenting to which they are entitled. I do not believe our Government has kept its promise of promoting and encouraging positive, non-violent parenting. In light of the Ryan report, is this not an opportune time to ensure that children’s right to freedom from violence in the home is secured? – Yours, etc,

SANDRA HIGGINS,

Slane,

Co Meath.

My question is: who are the World Organisation Against Torture and how is that they can issue diktats to our Government, which apparently has acquiesced to their threatening, bullying demands? Who elected them?

We have been over this ground many, many times before: reasonable chastisement is near-universally accepted as a perfectly legitimate means of controlling unruly children. You can tell the households in which a father is absent: those in which the absence of discipline results in criminal adolescents.

Smacking your own children, for the purposes of discipline, is an inalienable parental right from the dawn of man and only a warped and sick mind would consider it "torture". Those that cant tell the difference are mentally disturbed.

[corelli]

One consequence of the Ryan Report is that every crank with an agenda has come out of the wood work. This group really irritate me, letter in the Irish Times (of course):

Madam, – In Ireland, teachers who administer corporal punishment are liable to be charged with assault under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997, whilst parents are immune from such laws and can physically assault and humiliate their children in the name of “reasonable chastisement”. In 2005 the World Organisation Against Torture registered a complaint against Ireland in this respect and the European Committee of Social Rights found our current legislation to be in violation of children’s rights. Our Government’s response was to promise an eventual ban on corporal punishment.

Hitting a child is never in the child’s best interests. Children are entitled to the same protection from physical assaults as adults. While corporal punishment is legal and acceptable, children are deprived of the positive parenting to which they are entitled. I do not believe our Government has kept its promise of promoting and encouraging positive, non-violent parenting. In light of the Ryan report, is this not an opportune time to ensure that children’s right to freedom from violence in the home is secured? – Yours, etc,

SANDRA HIGGINS,

Slane,

Co Meath.

My question is: who are the World Organisation Against Torture and how is that they can issue diktats to our Government, which apparently has acquiesced to their threatening, bullying demands? Who elected them?

We have been over this ground many, many times before: reasonable chastisement is near-universally accepted as a perfectly legitimate means of controlling unruly children. You can tell the households in which a father is absent: those in which the absence of discipline results in criminal adolescents.

Smacking your own children, for the purposes of discipline, is an inalienable parental right from the dawn of man and only a warped and sick mind would consider it "torture". Those that cant tell the difference are mentally disturbed.

They are an NGO. Their view means nothing thought the writer is correct to say that the Committee on Social Rights of the EU, which looks after the Charter of Social Rights, gave the government and earful on the issue, but as their decisions are not binding its unenforceable in EU law.

It's a ridiculous position to take anyway. What will criminalising it do anyway? Just make sure that you knock the crap out of your child at home where nobody can see you!!! Excellent!! At least presently if someone is giving their child a real hiding publicly you can report them to the Gardai.

Mind you, when you think about rationally, inflicting violence on your child due to your inability to parent/control your temper is a rather disturbing thought.

[Tommy Tayto]

Fair point. It's certainly acceptable to lightly smack a child that is repeatedly unruly. Beating a child is a different story altogether. I'd love to see how family life is for these people doing the complaining. A domesticated version of lord of the flies I'll bet.

And if it IS torture, when can I lodge my lawsuit? I want some frickin' money right now! Come on, I want it.

[stringjack]

My question is: who are the World Organisation Against Torture and how is that they can issue diktats to our Government, which apparently has acquiesced to their threatening, bullying demands? Who elected them?

By that logic, Amnesty International, for example, would have no business making threatening, bullying demands that the government of Mauritania stop beating confessions out of people accused of committing a crime.

We have been over this ground many, many times before: reasonable chastisement is near-universally accepted as a perfectly legitimate means of controlling unruly children.

Corporal punishment by parents is prohibited in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Cyprus, Croatia, Latvia, Israel, Germany, Bulgaria, Iceland, Romania, Ukraine, Hungary, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Uruguay, Venezuela, Spain, and Costa Rica (source). It is nowhere close to being universally accepted as legitimate.

[stringjack]

It's a ridiculous position to take anyway. What will criminalising it do anyway? Just make sure that you knock the crap out of your child at home where nobody can see you!!! Excellent!! At least presently if someone is giving their child a real hiding publicly you can report them to the Gardai.

One assumes you don't take the same line on sexual abuse by parents.

[Seán Mac Stiofán]

By that logic, Amnesty International, for example, would have no business making threatening, bullying demands that the government of Mauritania stop beating confessions out of people accused of committing a crime.

Clearly this W.O.A.T. is a bizzare fringe group composed of cranks if it thinks that lightly smacking children is 'torture'. This is actually what this group believes in, that the clip-on-ear or wooden spoon on the back-of-the-legs, to punish disobedient is "torture". What a bunch of weirdos.

Corporal punishment by parents is prohibited in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Cyprus, Croatia, Latvia, Israel, Germany, Bulgaria, Iceland, Romania, Ukraine, Hungary, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Uruguay, Venezuela, Spain, and Costa Rica (source). It is nowhere close to being universally accepted as legitimate.

Not France then? Not Switzerland? Belgium? Italy? Estonia, Lithuania? Poland? Luxembourg? United States? Canada? Brazil? Argentina? etc. etc. etc. .... Now go away.

[joemomma]

Clearly this W.O.A.T. is a bizzare fringe group composed of cranks if it thinks that lightly smacking children is 'torture'. This is actually what this group believes in, that the clip-on-ear or wooden spoon on the back-of-the-legs, to punish disobedient is "torture". What a bunch of weirdos.

The quoted article doesn't actually say that they think it's torture though, does it?

[stringjack]

Clearly this W.O.A.T. is a bizzare fringe group composed of cranks if it thinks that lightly smacking children is 'torture'. This is actually what this group believes in, that the clip-on-ear or wooden spoon on the back-of-the-legs, to punish disobedient is "torture". What a bunch of weirdos.

I thought your problem was that they're not an elected bunch of weirdos.

Not France then? Not Switzerland? Belgium? Italy? Estonia, Lithuania? Poland? Luxembourg? United States? Canada? Brazil? Argentina? etc. etc. etc. .... Now go away.

No. Do you have difficulty understanding what 'near-universal' means?

[ArtyQueing]

Plenty of airheads like these around - if this is the sort of tripe they come out with let us have a look at their funding and see if it can be spent better elsewhere

[No_Tanks_as_Greens_Dragon]

A child should never be disciplined in anger