Campaigning for Irish Diaspora Ancestral Return Rights: Jus Sanguin

[Riadach]

That's a daft comparison. Despite how unacceptable this fact is to you Lefties, all the genetic evidence shows that 80% of the Irish people are descended from the first inhabitants of this island. The relevant studies were by TCD and were the main focus of the RTE series "Blood of the Irish". I would argue that there is such a thing as Irish ethnicity, and that while it is true others like the Normans, Norse and English came here too, that in the South, their numbers were small enough to be assimilated and that their descendents tend to be of mixed - including ethnic Irish, descent. Your post fits in with your general world-view including Eurofederalism, which wants a postnationalist Europe including a postnationalist Ireland. Persons like me, who want a Europe of nation-states, would do well to see through such agendas. I don't accept that just anyone can "become" Irish like they can join a union. That is the case in the New World countries like the US which started life as heterogenous settler-colonies anyway. The European model of the nation-state has been based around ethnic-majorities with ethnic-minorities that assimilate into the dominant culture. That is a fundamental fact, particularly with respect to Ireland. If you want evidence for the relevance people attach to their ethnic-roots when determining their own national-identities, then look at the border on the map of this island and draw the relevant conclusions. Look too to the breakup of multicultural-entities like Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union.

Can I have a post-racial europe? I'm ok with nationalities for now, I'm ok with unique cultures, because I believe unique cultures work with enough to advance creativity, art and entertainment, I also think minority culture aids in that process. But ethnic purity is pointless, in fact it limits human potential rather than expand it. So to be honest, I see nothing particularly fantastic about preserving pure Irish pedigrees, and I don't see why the state should engage in policies pursuant to that end.

[Riadach]

You know as little about Argentine-Irish culture as you know about the Man in the Moon. So knock off your stupid insults.
You're a fascist creep.
Worse.
You're a bore.

I don't recall referring to Argentine-Irish culture. The post wasn't solely about them, afterall. Do you ever get tired of being an inane gob********************e with nothing to post but insults. What a tiny boring insecure world you must live in, that you engage in keyboard warrior tactics to improve you're self esteem. Let's face it Horace, you're hardly the most interesting informative of posters, in fact, you seem to have the one joke (the when you finished your (insert exam which belittles individual's education here)).

[DaBrow]

Can I have a post-racial europe? I'm ok with nationalities for now, I'm ok with unique cultures, because I believe unique cultures work with enough to advance creativity, art and entertainment, I also think minority culture aids in that process. But ethnic purity is pointless, in fact it limits human potential rather than expand it. So to be honest, I see nothing particularly fantastic about preserving pure Irish pedigrees, and I don't see why the state should engage in policies pursuant to that end.

Multiculturalism which you are advocating has failed massively and the majority of Irish people don't want that:

They don't want Ghettos springing up in their towns and cities where the inhabitants never interact with the rest of society, Dublin 15 is an example of where "White Flight" is occuring which also back in 2007 was mentioned on RTE'S PrimeTime. Dick Spring even two years ago on the radio broke his silence about how immigration is not working, saying from his own observations in Kerry that Foreign Nationals haven't and aren't bothered about integrating with the populace.


Irish People don't want to see the riots that occurred in Bradford 2001 happening or Oct 2005 France happening either, they happened at very short notice and the effects are still felt today............. riots in Paris almost happened again in 2007 but failed due to the presence of a battallion of Heavily Armed Gendarmes.

Fact is that Homo-genious nations like Japan and Korea, have social problems but nothing like racism or ethnic inequality like multicultural countries have because they employ the tightest immigration standards in the world enabling the national identity to strongly flourish and be protected, whilst they allow a small number of non-nationals into the country on fixed working permits that have to be renewed or otherwise they have to leave.

I salute these governments because they wisely have prevented ethnic tensions and other social problems from happening in their nations, attacks have happened but no way near on the scale that we will experience in europe. we did follow this idea for years until the minority of political correctness infected the irish political spectrum.

The presence of non-nationals in Ireland is not a problem, but only as long as it is very small like no more than 1% of the country's make up otherwise what we have currently (14.3% minimum to 20%) trouble will be on its way sooner than we think

[FutureTaoiseach]

Can I have a post-racial europe? I'm ok with nationalities for now, I'm ok with unique cultures, because I believe unique cultures work with enough to advance creativity, art and entertainment, I also think minority culture aids in that process. But ethnic purity is pointless, in fact it limits human potential rather than expand it. So to be honest, I see nothing particularly fantastic about preserving pure Irish pedigrees, and I don't see why the state should engage in policies pursuant to that end.

Let's differentiate "racial" from the term "racist" because they are not the same. I define racism as prejudice against someone based on their race/ethnicity. The acknowledgement that separate races/ethnicities exist does not constitute racism, any more than the belief that separate genders exist constitutes sexism.

I am not calling for ethnic-purity. I consider someone to be ethnic-Irish if they have at least some Irish ancestory. So for example, I would consider the child of one Irish and one Nigerian parentage that is born here to be Irish. However, I do believe in the traditional model of the European nation state in which there is an ethnic-majority - which of course tolerates ethnic-minorities in the country aswell. I believe that newcomers to this country should behave as the descendents of the Normans and Vikings did - and not as the Northern Unionists did. The lessons from the Plantations and the violence in France, Holland, Spain etc. are clear: let too many in and they will ghettoise and you will end up with demands for political separation or the imposition of ideology e.g. Islamic radicalism by the descendents of unintegrated newcomers. Let relatively small numbers in, and they will assimilate and intermarry with the natives and come to regard themselves as being just as Irish as the rest of us. I favour the latter.

Honestly, for all the difficulty Irish politicians have had in trying to sort out Northern Ireland over generations, you would think they would understand this lesson.

[Odyessus]

Hi, David Mcwilliams as far back as 2 years ago in the Generation Game talked about how as a country we can benefit from an alternative source of population growth than strengthens our national identity, given fears of what Mass-Immigration is doing to the Ireland that we all love and cherish.

If there is any major development on this subject, and it needs to be well planned/foolproof to work how about:

Have strong ancestral ties to the country; Have Predomient Irish Ancestry of (51%+ minimum and nothing lower that counts as only partial descent............... because that will allow the system to be abused.

Have a clean or very minor criminal record of small misdemenours they have since reformed from committing.

Be fluent in English and show the commitment to learn or already hold fluency in Irish............. we want to protect the Irish Language and ensure its growth

Have a good standard of education or have an impressive skillset.................... these will help develop infrastructure and hard/soft-power

Be knowledgeable of Irish History, culture and customs.................... From personal experience, I have met many (Not all for the sake of courtesy) British-Born People of Irish-Descent who have no concept of irish identity at all............ this is one of the most important criterions to meet

These Country's follow more sensible Jus Sanguin Laws than our own stupid one:

Italy

Greece

Japan

Jus sanguinis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think this idea has a lot of merit. The details would have to be debated, but it is a good idea in principle.

[DaBrow]

I think this idea has a lot of merit. The details would have to be debated, but it is a good idea in principle.

Thank You I only hope it can be adopted asap because according to another thread, we'll be a minority in our own country within a few decades due to the number of non-irish flocking to our shores and countrymen leaving them.

We are the only country in the world to have had a demographical change so quickly in under 20 years.

[Horace Horse]

I don't recall referring to Argentine-Irish culture. .

Now he tries to wriggle out of it. You explicitly stated "Or is or (sic) 'unique' identity the Mcdonaldised culture most of these individuals have been brought up in?"

I asked you what the hell you know about Argentinians of Irish heritage, one of the communiites mentioned by earlier posters, which permitted you to make this crazed claim.

You can't answer.

So I'll give you the answer.

SFA.

So SFU.

[Mac an Ghaill]

I am an American of Irish-descent. In fact, despite the cultural melting pot that is America, both sides of my family (father's side is 100% Irish and mother's side is 100% Norwegian) managed to stay within their communities until my parents decided to get married and have children. I am four generations out (my great-great grandfather) from the last relative who was born on the island (he was born in Cork). When my Irish family immigrated to the United States they came with a large Irish contingent that settled in a town called Erin, Wisconsin. At one point it had the largest concentration of Irish people outside of Ireland. My family comes primarily from Cork and Tipperary (but there is speculation from also Kilkenny, Offaly, and Armagh as well). I'll show you my family tree. I have Stapletons, Connollys, O'Neills, Faheys, Flynns, O'Donovans, Healys, Flemings, and Myrons on my dad's side of the aisle.

While I am no longer Catholic (or a recovering Catholic if you will), certainly not the be all, end all of Irish identity; I do love my Irish heritage and have been also trying to teach myself the language. Did I mention that I also am a member of a hurling club here in the States? Oh yeah, I also work in IT so I contribute to Irish society as well. Sign this half Irish/half Norwegian, American, hurling IT worker up for you program DaBrow. Or would I not qualify?

- M

[Clanrickard]

Now he tries to wriggle out of it. You explicitly stated "Or is or (sic) 'unique' identity the Mcdonaldised culture most of these individuals have been brought up in?"

I asked you what the hell you know about Argentinians of Irish heritage, one of the communiites mentioned by earlier posters, which permitted you to make this crazed claim.

You can't answer.

So I'll give you the answer.

SFA.

So SFU.

You utter utter gob********************e. Do you actually read other people's posts?

[Riadach]

Now he tries to wriggle out of it. You explicitly stated "Or is or (sic) 'unique' identity the Mcdonaldised culture most of these individuals have been brought up in?"

I asked you what the hell you know about Argentinians of Irish heritage, one of the communiites mentioned by earlier posters, which permitted you to make this crazed claim.

You can't answer.

So I'll give you the answer.

SFA.

So SFU.

How does that necessarily include Argentine-Irish culture? I did not mention them explicitly, and have left enough wiggle room implicitly to circumvent groups which may still practice a recognisably Irish culture to a certain extent. And since you're being typically obtuse and pedantic, may I educate you by informing you that sic is normally used with square brackets ([]) and not with round brackets. It's academic convention for indicating the input of the person quoting into the quoted text. Had you been educated beyond second-level, you would have known this. (See what I did there?)