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  1. #611
    JRMcNelis JRMcNelis is offline
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    In the fullness of time...

    It seems likely that we will one day unite as a common humanity under 1 system of government, and virtually no regionalism at all.

    When will that happen?
    Not in my time, not in yours, not in my kids, or theirs, or even theirs still.

    Any "unite all of humanity to live in a common brotherhood of man" movement is centuries upon centuries away.
    It is just as likely we will kill each other off before this happens.


    Since any globalization is in the very distant future, we need to do now what will make the most people happy in their lives today.
    This means we need to accept regionalism, and other facts of life, and modify our laws to address various needs.


    With an eye to the future, we should be trying to ensure that similar cultures and values are strengthened, so that if (or when) humanity unites, it is done with more of a Western-liberal democracy slant, than it is with a Chinese-communist or some other totalitarian regime slanting that system.


    There, apologies for getting philosophical, but it seems that speaking of "Earth citizenship" in this day, is just as relevant as speaking about Roman citizenship.
    Neither entitity exists today, we need to deal with the present, not the past or future.
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  2. #612
    DaBrow DaBrow is offline
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    Here's a hint.......... Research the subject

    Quote Originally Posted by finnharps4life View Post


    As I say a sad case. Not even going to bother with you anymore.

    I have no one flag, I have no one nation. I have no one culture. I'm a citizen of Earth.

    And Ireland has always been multicultural. Just our multicultural society is becoming a little more diverse nowdays.

    The truth is you have an inferiority complex. You're the one who doesn't believe Irish culture can stand up to other cultures of the world and perceive new cultures to Ireland to be a threat which Irish culture can't compete with. But if you knew Irish music, dance is enjoyed not only in your much beloved USA but also a little closer to home like in Croatia for example. It is is you DaBrow who is ashamed of the culture of this Island, not me.

    I notice the way you have no problem with the Foreign Catholic Religion? Why is that?

    Irish people don't want multiculturalism you say? Please give me some report or survey. I think you're talking more of the usual crap.
    Ireland has been for thousands of years been a unique social, political and ethnic entity......... like the rest of europe.

    Ireland has idigenous diversity........ The West of Ireland people are rather different socially to the Leinster, Munster and Ulster Irish but despite the very minor difference of attitude, we are all one and the same.

    I am loyal to my Country and Its People; no-one else and the fact that Ireland had a small christian population prior to St Patricks arrival means that the Roman Catholic religion built on the foundations of what was already here.......... so Papists as you so claim are not the invaders at all. But you probably would prefer if people in Ireland reverted slumpped to Pagan barbarism, and sacrificed animals or humans on a stone every full moon.

    You just live on a planet that quite frankly isn't earth......... Here is evidence proving how out of touch with reality you really are:
    Attitudes towards migrants becoming more negative - Ireland, Breaking News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

    Sutherland seeks better integration of immigrants - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 31, 2009 - Peter Sutherland has said Integration of Immigrants must be improved and that immigrants should conform to Irish Values/traditions/laws.

    If you bothered to look through these pages......... you'd find that Dick Spring as far back as Feb 2007 denounced the mass-immigration occuring to Ireland and there is even a thread dedicated to it.

    http://www.politics.ie/labour/11666-...migration.html

    Ireland cannot cope with 100,000 plus people arriving here every year from within and outside the EU................ Britain is Struggling, Sweden are just as bad as us and all the other nations of europe are at the point of demanding a halt.......... while their governments remain oblivous or ignorant.

    Immigrants can only integrate if they actually understand and relate to the people they wish to live amongst...................... Only the Irish Diaspora understand us and can live like ourselves because there is LITTLE or NO DIFFERENCE.

    http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_ml...918_index.html
    "In Study 2, we replicated our findings and tested them in a more ethnically homogeneous nation (the Republic of Ireland) and showed that while mean levels of symbolic essentialism were similar across both nations, biological essentialism was higher among Irish people."

    You want the Irish People to be a minority in their own lands............... that is what you are really advocating but are too foolish or blind to admit.

    P.S.

    Just to try and enter a message into that Anti-Irish, Pro-Balkanisation & Pro Mass Immigration Skull of yours.

    I believe in One World Many Cultures.......... True Diversity

    Not One Country Many Cultures............... True Problems and disaster, you need only look at the USSR & Yugoslavia. Oh Yeah, you can't because they no longer exist.
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  3. #613
    donkey donkey is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRMcNelis View Post
    Urban sprawl/white flight/migrant workers, in my opinion, is a tangent to citizenship for diaspora.

    An important topic, worthy of it's own thread for sure.

    If you could press a button and give citizenship to all Irish Americans, and they would all move back to Ireland...this would be a bad thing.
    And I hate to say that, but it's true.

    I hate to say it, because I am an irish American, and I'd love to have dual citizenship.

    But if 20, 30, or 40 million Irish Americans tried to return to ireland, that would be an ecological disaster in its own right.

    I believe citizenship for Irish descendents, my calculated guess that is, would result in largely having Irish dual citizens in nations across the globe.

    Israel has dual citizens in America, and as a result, Israel recieves a lot of financial aid, investment, and more from the American government. Basically, no politician in America can be elected to office without expressing at least some support for israel.

    Ireland could enjoy the same thing.

    Imagine 30 million Irish american voters holding dual citizenship, and seeking to promote Irish investment.

    How many more jobs and economic opportunities would be created in Ireland?

    Now imagine, that whatever % of those 30 million dual citizens, seek to return to Ireland either in retirement or to work, how much in assets to they bring with them?
    American Social Security payments
    American Medicare Coverage for retirees
    High levels of education and advanced skills in all areas of employment/government

    Like I said, to me, diaspora citizenship cannot solve urban sprawl.
    At BEST, it can lower it's problems, because you can gain extra insight in solving planning problems and build stronger communities.

    The migrant worker problem? It's complicated.
    Hard to solve.

    If a federated Europe is created, it won't be solved until the EU passes not the "Lisbon 2 Treaty," but rather some version of our Constitution's 14th Amendment. But that would be at least a generation away itself.
    As if 40 million Irish Americans WOULD move to Ireland. My American friends couldn't fathom staying here more than a few weeks. Gimmie a break.

    You'd have to be American the way you argue your point.. with imaginary figures and percentages...

    Most Irish Americans I know (relatives, friends) came over for two weeks and subsequently miss friends and the comfort home and went back.

    I think if we had less stringent immigration laws regarding ancestry very few people would actually take up on it... most of them would be elderly Irish Americans who have private health care and disposable income. The others would be skilled labourers who'd only add to the country's tax base.

    I completely agree that Irish diaspora should be allowed to live here and given an opportunity at residency and then Citizenship. I also believe the Irish in America should be given a chance at making a legal go of it.

    I find it hugely ironic that Fianna Fáil and company kick out immigrants from Nigeria on a daily basis but yet whine like children when the topic of "undocumented" Irish in America comes up. I don't hear them kick up a fuss when American businesses want head quarter here and employ Irish. Fact: most of Ireland's Direct Foreign Investment is from the United States.

    My "ancestors" left Leitrim and Cork during the Famine and surely their property was appropriated by neighbours... his descendants have every right to call this island home regardless what anyone says. The only argument against comes down to greed and selfishness.
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  4. #614
    JRMcNelis JRMcNelis is offline
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    Is there something wrong with the Irish schools?

    Do they not teach the conditional tense?

    When one says IF... and then goes on a projection of what would happen should that condition happen.
    That is NOT a statement of opinion that they think that is likely.

    Re-read my post that you quote.
    Did you miss the line: "I believe citizenship for Irish descendents, my calculated guess that is, would result in largely having Irish dual citizens in nations across the globe."

    That is what I think would happen.

    The "If you could press a magic button and..." line that is a projection of a condition to stress a point being made.
    If you don't understand what the conditional tense is, think of it as make believe.

    When you were kids, and your friend said: "Ok, now we're going to play cops and robbers."
    He was not saying that you would ACTUALLY become a policeman, and he'd ACTUALLY become a crook.

    It was the imaginary world for amusement.

    Here I use the conditional tense to highlight what COULD result from a large influx of American immigrants.

    So read up on what the conditional tense is and means, and then re-read my post.
    When you do, you will likely post an apology for such an absurd reply.
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  5. #615
    DaBrow DaBrow is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey View Post
    As if 40 million Irish Americans WOULD move to Ireland. My American friends couldn't fathom staying here more than a few weeks. Gimmie a break.

    You'd have to be American the way you argue your point.. with imaginary figures and percentages...

    Most Irish Americans I know (relatives, friends) came over for two weeks and subsequently miss friends and the comfort home and went back.

    I think if we had less stringent immigration laws regarding ancestry very few people would actually take up on it... most of them would be elderly Irish Americans who have private health care and disposable income. The others would be skilled labourers who'd only add to the country's tax base.

    I completely agree that Irish diaspora should be allowed to live here and given an opportunity at residency and then Citizenship. I also believe the Irish in America should be given a chance at making a legal go of it.

    I find it hugely ironic that Fianna Fáil and company kick out immigrants from Nigeria on a daily basis but yet whine like children when the topic of "undocumented" Irish in America comes up. I don't hear them kick up a fuss when American businesses want head quarter here and employ Irish. Fact: most of Ireland's Direct Foreign Investment is from the United States.

    My "ancestors" left Leitrim and Cork during the Famine and surely their property was appropriated by neighbours... his descendants have every right to call this island home regardless what anyone says. The only argument against comes down to greed and selfishness.
    Your username fits in quite nicely with the type of ill-mannered and stupid rant made, is it usual for you so be such an ASS?
    Last edited by DaBrow; 16th August 2009 at 08:17 PM.
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  6. #616
    Horace Horse Horace Horse is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey View Post
    As if 40 million Irish Americans WOULD move to Ireland. My American friends couldn't fathom staying here more than a few weeks. Gimmie a break.

    You'd have to be American the way you argue your point.. with imaginary figures and percentages...

    Most Irish Americans I know (relatives, friends) came over for two weeks and subsequently miss friends and the comfort home and went back.

    I think if we had less stringent immigration laws regarding ancestry very few people would actually take up on it... most of them would be elderly Irish Americans who have private health care and disposable income. The others would be skilled labourers who'd only add to the country's tax base.


    I find it hugely ironic that Fianna Fáil and company kick out immigrants from Nigeria on a daily basis but yet whine like children when the topic of "undocumented" Irish in America comes up. .

    .

    What is your source for saying that FF et al "kick out immigrants from Nigeria on a daily basis"?

    I'd say you're talking garbage, but prove me wrong.
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  7. #617
    DaBrow DaBrow is offline
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    I'm very suprised how quiet this has been............

    Hopefully this will move forward when the Dáil reconvenes, after Lisbon 2 has been rejected so we can actually make laws that benefit the Irish people and our diaspora.
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  8. #618
    DaBrow DaBrow is offline
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    I've just been told by PM Apparently David McWilliams is championing return rights for the diaspora and hosting an event in Farmleigh House Sept 16th-18th to that end.

    People may already know all about this (I don't know) I didn't catch the radio interview this morning with him where he was talking quite passionately on the subject and thought I'd let others know if they might wish to attend.

    We're getting Somewhere!

    Eire Abu!!!!!
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  9. #619
    JRMcNelis JRMcNelis is offline
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    Great to hear that this issue is having some traction.

    With luck this is the sign of more to come.
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  10. #620
    DaBrow DaBrow is offline
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    I really hope that this works

    David McWilliams: Irish Diaspora

    http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_tubridy.xml
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