Campaigning for Irish Diaspora Ancestral Return Rights: Jus Sanguin

[JRMcNelis]

horace and others....

I am WELL aware that the term Orangeman is an organization of Protestant loyalists.

The term Orange has come into close association with Protestant movements since William of Orange (1688).

That is nothing new.

Nor do I reject CORRECTIONS as you claim (wrongly) that I do.

I stated quite clearly, that in conversations and such, the term "orange republican" where I live, is not an oxy moron.
It means exactly that a Protestant that wants a united and an independent Ireland.

Is this an incorrect usage of the two terms?
Most probably.

But when an Irish-American claims someone is a orange republican, they do not mean the person is a Loyalist-Republican....that would be asinine, and be a foolish assumption on your part to think that is the intended meaning.

No it is meant, as DaBrow pointed out, as I thought my previous post pointed out (guess not sufficiently enough for all of you) that the person is a PROTESTANT republican.

Re-read my last post on the matter, nothing is incorrect in it.

If you accept the definition I give in it for orangeman, and the definition I give for an orange Republican.....then the conclusion MUST be as i point out above.

Since this term is a NON-existant term in any normal use, then it is an incorrect translation of sorts of group names from Irish politics to American conversation.

Such things happen. Or are you unaware that petrol is gas here?
That roundabouts are rotaries?

These different names meaning different things across the Atlantic are common, and that is what we have seen here, and that is what you are accusing me of being ignorant on. I think you need to understand that the English language and its usage has been tortured by those using it on both sides of the ocean, to create subtle differences.

[JRMcNelis]

of course he'd wrong, an Orangeman cannot be a republican. You take an oath of loyality to the Queen when you become an Orangeman. He's not entirely off the mark though because when the Institution in Ireland split, some high ranking members of the Independent Orange Order were home-rulers.

Again, re-read the post 2 posts above this entry of yours.

If one accepts the definition of Orangeman I give (Protestant loyalist)....

and one takes the TIME to read what definition I give to an "orange republican" (a term not in existance in Ireland) then one would realize that I am NOT wrong, as you claim, but rather that we have stumbled upon one of the many differences of phrases, as an "orange republican" around here, means more precisely, a protestant republican.

My suggestion, read posts more carefully before weighing in on who is right/wrong, or merely mis-understood due to linguistics, as is the case here.

[Alliance 109]

Again, re-read the post 2 posts above this entry of yours.

If one accepts the definition of Orangeman I give (Protestant loyalist)....

and one takes the TIME to read what definition I give to an "orange republican" (a term not in existance in Ireland) then one would realize that I am NOT wrong, as you claim, but rather that we have stumbled upon one of the many differences of phrases, as an "orange republican" around here, means more precisely, a protestant republican.

My suggestion, read posts more carefully before weighing in on who is right/wrong, or merely mis-understood due to linguistics, as is the case here.

dude, chill. i see where you're coming from. just sounds rather odd to many people around here to see those two words together

[JRMcNelis]

That is precisely my point.

That is precisely why I prefaced my comments earlier with the phrase:
"It might just be me, BUT...."

Clearly the usage is wrong by Irish standards, certainly it would be odd to use them together.
And that is why we have now had about 10 posts on this nonsense, but maybe it is over now, and we can get back to the topic at hand.

Thanks for the prompt reply, I for one, have learned something from this, and will tailor my language to be more precise in the future.

[Horace Horse]

Come On Horace,

cut him a little slack.... I know you mean well but you are sounding a little Harsh.

He will have meant Protestant Republicans........ but obviously confused them with the term Orange, since the Orange Order are a protestant organisation.

He did say that it might have just been him that thought that.

Oh all right. But remember that I support his general proposition, though my own interest in it comes from the fact that I lived in Argentina for a year and came to know the Irish-Argentine community and their pleas to be recognized by what they call their madre patria -- "motherland".

My point is that if he annoys even his supporters what hope does he have with the rest?

[JRMcNelis]

Horace, you most certainly do have a point there.

As I stated, i will try to tailor my choice of language to be more precise in the future.

And the Argentinian-Irish applications do have POWERFUL stories, if any reform is made on this issue...

I have no doubt, the Irish diaspora will owe them a great debt of gratitude for pushing this issue to the forefront.

[MC_G]

Hi all, first post, long time lurker.

I too am an "Irish American" who missed the deadline by a generation with four great-grandparents born in Ireland and emigrating to the US in the early 1900s to 1920s.

I guess I miss the 51% some of you are advocating, but that's OK because I already live here and am on the LONG route to citizenship by long term residence (student visa not counted, wp/greencard, soon to be marraige). I do have to say I am in favor of this for many of the reasons that so many of you have pointed out.

I really don't think there's much political will in Ireland for this though, and have in fact been told as much by a former Minister for Justice.

I do hope that this does work out because it would take quite a bit of time off of the nearly 9 years I will have lived here before I'd get citizenship (DoJ waiting times and all) and there are many people Argentinians/Americans/Canadians/Kiwis and countless other nationalities who would be sincere in the desire to be good citizens and supportive of Ireland and Irish interests either in their home countries or if they choose to move here.

I am supportive of your quest here McNelis so don't take this the wrong way, but I have never heard the term Orange Republican so it's not an Irish American thing. Orange in my neck of the woods would have meant Loyalist full stop, not synonymous with Protestant and there would be more likely hood of a Catholic Orangeman than an Orange republican.

In any event most people I have meet from the republic or the north have thankfully been trying to move beyond the divisions of our shared histories.

Thanks to all in Ireland who are at least open minded about returning the laws back to pre 1986 and viewing us as the asset we could be rather than the liability that some fear.

[Staropramen]

Welcome to the forum, MC G, and best of look in your citizenship application!

[MC_G]

Thanks, 18-20 months until I've been here long enough to apply. That's if we all don't have to emigrate again.

I'm sweating at the moment with the forthcoming changes to the length of time I'm allowed to remain in the event I'm made redundant, so if citzenship by descent became available, as it is to my Father, Uncles, Aunts et al, I'd be thrilled.

[3rd3rd]

Welcome, MC_G! And best of luck to you!