What if Paganism was never defeated

[Zariatnatmick]

Okay, so you can't prove any such 'indisputable' heritage as you claimed for even one sect of paganism.

Oh, feel free to ignore anything I say when you can't think of a response.

If you require evidence of charlatans exploiting gullible and vulnerable people via New Age beliefs, I will commence with citing the Scientologists and the Cult of Ramtha.

Right, and this has what to do with paganism?

Your citation of that well-known source of truth and only truth wikipedia is frankly risible.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shamanism

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/s/shaman.asp

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761 ... haman.html

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761 ... jo_(people).html#p13

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_701 ... .html#p126

http://www.bartleby.com/65/sh/shaman.html

And so on. Unfortunately for your Tunguskan friends, they don't get to decide what their name is used to describe.

Having visited and written about shamans, a dying breed incidentally thanks to Stalin, Brezhnev and current post-Soviet affluence, near Baikal and in the Sayan mountains in 2001

Prove it.

I can inform you that while New Agers may have attempted to adopt their holy title...

And anthropologists. And sociologists. And historians. And, well, everyone except you, it would seem.

... as synecdotal for a wide and baffling range of spiritual beliefs, according to the Department of Shaman studies at the university in Ulaan Baatar, and the shamans themselves, they see this as an inaccurate misappropriation from their own ancient religion, analogous as I said, to referring to Presbyterian moderators as popes.

All of which could not have less to do this thread. I think we have clearly enough disambiguated the word.

If you wany further clarification, I suggest you consult Dr Dulam of the ISMC at the Mongolian National University on the issue, as it exercises and vexes him greatly.

Sure. We're doing lunch on Tuesday - I'll bring it up then.

And finally, if you accept that Born Again Christians are no more crazy than people espousing New Age beliefs...

Well, I don't. I get the impression that you are only able to glean a small amount of the information present in every sentence.

[JCSkinner]

The misuse of the term shaman to aggrandise any number of neo-pagan nonsenses is no excuse for showing disrespect to genuine indigenous practitioners of the world's oldest contemporary religion.
I respect their right to have their holy term used correctly, respectfully and solely in reference to their religious practice.
If you require evidence that I met shamans in Buryatia in 2001, pm me an email address and I'll send you a few pics once I have them scanned (the days before the digital camera for me).
You did previously mention that you considered Born Again Christians to be mostly crazy. Then you said that you did not consider New Age Practitioners to be any less crazy than them. Then you said that you didn't consider anyone crazy. Which did you mean?

[Zariatnatmick]

The misuse of the term shaman to aggrandise any number of neo-pagan nonsenses is no excuse for showing disrespect to genuine indigenous practitioners of the world's oldest contemporary religion.

The term is used to aggrandise nothing. It is used to convey a commonly understood meaning, which it does perfectly efficiently until people start making ridiculous, cavilling objections.

I respect their right to have their holy term used correctly, respectfully and solely in reference to their religious practice.

I really couldn't care less what you respect, given your scant regard for the spiritual convictions of so many others.

You did previously mention that you considered Born Again Christians to be mostly crazy.

Okay.

Then you said that you did not consider New Age Practitioners to be any less crazy than them.

No, I didn't say that.

Then you said that you didn't consider anyone crazy.

I didn't say that either.

Which did you mean?

Perhaps you should read back, and this time - focus.

[JCSkinner]

So to clarify, you have no problem with showing utter disregard to practitioners of the world's oldest contemporary religion, yet you feel qualified to lecture others on the degree of respect due towards commercial creeds of freshly coddled together codswallop?
And you now appear to be reverting to your original position, that most Born Again Christians are crazy too.
Given the range of beliefs you are prepared to disrespect, I think you disqualify yourself from passing comment on religious beliefs in general.

[Zariatnatmick]

[Liberal333]

The difference lies in the cynicism. Those who founded Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, I suspect did so because they had a genuine sense of religious belief. Perhaps not all those who followed did, but in that point of origin sense, especially given how new belief systems have been persecuted at various stages, those acts were particularly brave and most likely inspired by genuine transcendental beliefs, whether to your or my mind they now appear to be based on fairy tales or gibberish.
The New Age beliefs however, are a marketing stunt, designed to part affluent, attention-seeking idiots from their cash and dignity by cynics.

dont forget the worlds only near dead maor monotheistic religion, Zoroastrianism.

[JCSkinner]

I wouldn't dare forget Zorastrianism. But, pray tell, why do you wish me to remind myself of it at this particular juncture?

[gobshite]

JC you are verring dangerously close to racism, what the hell is your problem with paganism. By the way happy Spring Equinox all