UN anti-blasphemy measures

[Gadfly]

Before we all get into a lather about the Islamic world (oops, too late), any indication of where the Vatican stands on this issue?
It is a well known ally of the Islamic Conference on a range of issues, including gay rights, and it has been known to influence positions taken by our own government.

[Fish]

Before we all get into a lather about the Islamic world (oops, too late), any indication of where the Vatican stands on this issue?
It is a well known ally of the Islamic Conference on a range of issues, including gay rights, and it has been known to influence positions taken by our own government.

Who cares given their track record during WWII where officially they stood on the side lines and stayed schtum while millions of Jews were butchered? Moreover they are both two sides of the same coin in many ways because I am sure the CC leadership would happily endorse any plan to restrict what can be said about them also considering the past abuse scandals! IMO the CC heirarchy would again gladly impose a system of theocratic dictatorship given half a chance....

[Gadfly]

Quote (Fish)
Winston Churchill on Islam
The River War | 1899 | Sir Winston Churchill
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
Unquote

Correct me if I am wrong, but this dates from the same time as other exponents of Empire regularly derided the "improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce" of another subject group, the Irish Catholics. Thankfully attitudes across the water have evolved since then - more on one group than on the other, though.

But to return to the main topic:

Free speech is a right that we have to defend vigorously. It was not always a given, and the story of establishing the right of free speech is closely linked to struggles by religious minorities, including Jewish minorities, to achieve equality of treatment.

But the right to free speech does not extend to speech which is intended to stir up hatred, and this is both legitimate and historically justified. Radio Milles Collines in Rwanda is an example of the abuse of free speech. Holocaust denial by the likes of the reinstated bishop Williamson is another.

So where do we draw the line between legitimate criticism or satire and hate speech? This is not easy. A bad outcome would be for religious groups to themselves define what is illegitimate criticism. One would expect the Irish government to stand up for this principle in international bodies. But will they? Or will they sit it out, fearing the crozier?

[TradCat]

Generally I detest the UN but I salute it for this move. No one has a right to insult someone else's theological beliefs.

Only clowns like Hitchens would want such a right.

Such a right is fundamental to democracy. Because God isn't here to tell us what he finds offensive the right falls to his followers who in every case have power agendas of their own.

Your theological beliefs are no more worthy of protection than your political opinions. Theology implies study and you can't have study without debate therefore free speech therefore insult.

[Electro]

Free speech is a right that we have to defend vigorously. It was not always a given, and the story of establishing the right of free speech is closely linked to struggles by religious minorities, including Jewish minorities, to achieve equality of treatment.

But the right to free speech does not extend to speech which is intended to stir up hatred, and this is both legitimate and historically justified. Radio Milles Collines in Rwanda is an example of the abuse of free speech. Holocaust denial by the likes of the reinstated bishop Williamson is another.

"Abuse of free speech"

You either believe in free speech or you do not.

Do not idealise about the importance of free speech if you are just as willing to withdraw it in the case of historical investigation (labeled "Holocaust denial" by the MSM).

Investigating WWII atrocities does not amount to hate. In the same way that investigating the facts of 9/11 does not amount to "hate against the victims of 9/11". It's total rubbish and simply a feeble attempt to close down discussion.

The whole point of "free speech" is that you don't have people imposing boundaries about what it does and does not extend to.

You believe there should be boundaries, on matters such as historical revisionism? That's fine. But don't claim to be the moral high ground here.

[Gadfly]

Here is an example of free speech I believe in:

Quote (Electro)
You either believe in free speech or you do not.
Unquote

Here is an example of a kind of free speech I don't believe in:

Quote
Established in 1993, the privately-owned radio initially criticised peace talks between the government of President Juvenal Habyarimana and the Tutsi-led rebels of the Rwandan Patriotic Army. Hardline Hutus saw the peace process as a threat to their power base.

After Habyarimana was killed when his plane was shot down in April 1994, the radio called for a "final war" to "exterminate the cockroaches." It played a role in organising militias, broadcast lists of people to be killed and, above all, incited hatred:

"In truth, all Tutsis will perish. They will vanish from this country ... They are disappearing little by little thanks to the weapons hitting them, but also because they are being killed like rats."

Unquote
Source: The sound of hatred

Substitute infidels, jews, papists, islamists or whatever for Tutsis, and it still doesn't work for me. There is no "right" to incite hatred.

[Trampas]

Generally I detest the UN but I salute it for this move. No one has a right to insult someone else's theological beliefs.

Only clowns like Hitchens would want such a right.

Sweet Jesus.

[cHeal]

Only clowns like Hitchens would want such a right.

I want that right. Everyone has a right to laugh at idiots, whether they be religious or of another variety.

[Alterego]

I want that right. Everyone has a right to laugh at idiots, whether they be religious or of another variety.

Here's laughing at ya, Cheal:

[Trampas]

Only clowns like Hitchens would want such a right.

I want that right too; and as for being in a position to ridicule those religious maniacs who are also 9/11 conspiracy theorists, why my cup runneth over.