I once taught an Honours Maths student who didn't know that .5 and one half were the same. I didn't try to extrapolate anything from it. I also know of quite a few people who studied history to a post-graduate level who would know less than most junior cert students. The reason: quite simply they were there to ''party'' and history was a ''handy'' subject to take. I didn't extrapolate anything from that either.Originally Posted by toxic avenger
National identity in Europe has usually corresponded to an ethno-linguistic group being the majority in the state. The post-nationalists don't like that being said, but in the Old World it is a fact. To those who will point to Switzerland as an exception, I would refer you to the wideranging political autonomy the cantons have as an example of the kind of concessions that have to be made to maintain cohesion, and Switzerland did actually have a civil-war in the 19th century. In the New World countries the basis of national-identity is different - as 99% of the population are the descendents of discernible and distinguishable national immigrant groups or are the immigrants themselves, and as the Native Americans were not united by a national-identity before the arrival of the outsiders. Yet even there, identities are often hyphenated, with the Jewish-American community supporting Israel, the Irish-American community supporting pressure on Britain during the Peace Process, the Cuban-Americans wanting a hardline on sanctions against Cuba, and the African-Americans tended to vote as a single bloc, especially since the Civil Rights era. Imho, US policy in the Middle East is a disturbing example of how a society composed of hyphenated-identities can sometimes manifest this in unjust policies. The US is a great country, but imho is pushed in this way towards foreign-policies that contradict US national interests, not least in terms of relations with the Muslim world. I hope Ireland is not similarly pushed into unprincipled diaspora-driven policies in the future, such as (hypothetically), Sharia law etc. I am against racism but I favour identity being preserved in the traditional Old World context. That allows for some immigration, but also demands assimilation and integration, which imho, are not compatible with the current levels of annual immigration continuing indefinitely. The US has been one of the countries where immigration (except for the Native Americans) has worked out reasonably well in other respects, but remember that this is largely because of state-sponsored patriotism including the oath of allegiance to the flag and an emphasis on learning English. Are we ready for that here? I am not a racist, but I am opposed to the kind of model of multiculturalism that wants us all to be different for the sake of it. People who want to come here should integrate. By all means let some in, but insist on them fitting in so we don't end up with the streets of Dublin turning into those of Paris in 2005. To my mind avoiding that requires tight controls on immigration from Muslim countries. I am not Islamophobic - to my mind the problem is organised religion itself - and we have plenty of experience of the persecuted it led to when too intwined with the political-classes for hundreds of years, e.g. Inquisition, Penal Laws, but Europe went through a secularising 'Enlightenment' that the Muslim world has yet to go through. Until they do, we are entitled to keep the drawbridge up somewhat with respect to those countries. Sorry. BTW, I think one thing that is generally agreed to be part of national-identity apart from the above, regardless of New or Old World, is some sort of shared national history. I think the partition of Ireland proves my point that whatever the post-nationalists might wish, most people in the Old World still see national-identity and perceived ethic-roots as important to national-borders.
Last edited by FutureTaoiseach; 29th January 2009 at 02:40 PM.
Maybe I am been a little over sensitive allright. But i do think that although we probably should not take these insults to serious, we should not be pondering to the idea of 'Britishness'.
Having a distinct an inoffensive culture as we have will be considered an achievement in the coming years as this idea of the world been just one big global village takes hold.
Remember multiculturalism is just a term created by multinationals to obtain cheap labour.
I dont ever want this country to become the garden of Britain.
It wasn't just History students, these weren't there for the 'craic', and even had they been my point still stands. So much for the 'superior' education system here...I once taught an Honours Maths student who didn't know that .5 and one half were the same. I didn't try to extrapolate anything from it. I also know of quite a few people who studied history to a post-graduate level who would know less than most junior cert students. The reason: quite simply they were there to ''party'' and history was a ''handy'' subject to take. I didn't extrapolate anything from that either.
No, we didn't last long, although it was more to do with being made to watch 'Braveheart' twice in a row one night. Even Eric Cartman would baulk at the devotion to the Gibson...
My point sailed right over your head there.
Our system is far from perfect, but at least it forces everyone to do both maths and a foreign language.
You gave graduate with top A levels without having done any maths since you were 15 or any language subject at all, ever.
"Who will bailout the IMF after FF is finished with them?"
Indeed they are. I displayed no prejudice, I made observations. You have a problem with those, your issue not mine...My point sailed right over your head there.
Prejudiced anecdotes are not a point. This is my point. It's not my issue that you have no point except to show it for the nonsense it is.
This is nothing new, Dr Douglas Hyde warned people about this. But, it is too late now, unless the downturn will force people to take a good long hard look how they live. Although, they will all probably just feel sorry for themselves, as everyone seems to do in the magazines, and on the chat shows.
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