National Crisis Planning: Using the Irish Diaspora

[DaBrow]

Friends, Patriots and Worthy Opponents of Politics.ie,

with all the anxiety and revealations proving that the "Celtic Tiger" was nothing more than a fraud and deception upon the people of our land.

I think we have to acknowledge one fact: We are seriously Screwed both economically and Socially.

Our Country and its native people have endured much suffering through famine, persecution, emigration and war but always faced and defeated the adversity that threatened our well-being.

However, we have challenges on many fronts: Thousands have lost their jobs and soon also their homes from repossessions, High Inflation and petrol prices are crippling the weakest people in society & the greatest wave of mass-immigration to ever hit a country is slowly crippling us.

In 15 years we have had a huge demographic shift: In 1993, the migrant population was manageable and miniscule only 1<=3% with the remaining 97-99% remaining Indigenous. 2008, at least 10% of the population is Non-National (Most likely 16% if not 18 -20% according to realistic estimates).

These are individuals here either Legally or Illegally have no links to this country: They have no ancestral, colonial or cultural claim to this country and we cannot provide their needs........... Ireland officially doesn't have the infrastructure and facilities to provide people from Africa, Asia and other parts of europe a well-being that they are robbed of in their own homelands.

They have been lied to believing that we can absorb them into our country: Every other Identity in the World is Distinctive and Exclusive............ We are not the United States!

Intolerance towards migrants is spirally out of control; there are a number of Ethnic prejudice crimes that go unreported and un/or willfully ignored by the press / government who pretend that we can welcome people into Ireland permanently whose values, customs & beliefs completely conflict with ours......... these naive fools in the Dáil believe that there will be no social problems in the short/medium/long-term for Irish Society.

We all remember France in Oct 2005, and Holland is slowly turning into a Far-Right Country after the Murder of Theo Van Gogh. Multi-Ethnic societies outside of America (Which has a Barely Noticeable Native American population) are unstable and dangerous.

Japan is the Only western Country that has little or No Social Problems especially due to their very strict Immigration Practises: 1% of their population is Migrant


I think we can learn from their ingenious policy that has made them prosperous and secure with their National Identity


Under the Irish Constitution:

Those of Irish Descent have the right to Claim Citizenship but only up until their Grandfathers Generation........... In 2002, 2 Irish-Argentian girls tried to claim citizenship under our Right of Return Law and they were denied because of one generation too late.

These fine women: Came from a Rural Community and brought up as Irish people with pride; they had irish names and descent, they sounded Irish, very knowledgeable of their Ancestral History, practised Irish Customs and Culture and most importantly Spoke Fluent English, Spanish and did if not showed the willingness to learn Irish.

Anyone in their shoes deserves the same rights as any Irishman/woman, they have the right to be Irish and work/settle here permanently.

We should scrap this stupid amendment made in 1983 and allow all our Diaspora Children who fill the above criteria the right to come home as Irishmen and women without restrictions on generations who left for various and justified reasons.

There are 70 million people in our Tribe and for all the help they gave us; we should with enough maturity allow those who are loyal and willing enough to come back and rebuild our National Identity.

David Mcwilliams brought this to attention last year in The Generation Game: I hold these views aswell.

So let's Get every Strong Blood North & South American, South African & Australasian Son of Eire on and off the world-stage to pressurise our Government on putting their constitutional duties into Action.

Let's Debate in a civilised, respectful manner and not insult the opposition.

E.g.

Che Guevera

Mel Gibson

JFK

Bernardo O'Higgins

Numerous US Presidents etc.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_People

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_diaspora

[L.O. Dublin S.C.]

Friends, Patriots and Worthy Opponents of Politics.ie,

I don't think that multi-culturalism and intergration is impossible if it is handled in the right way.

Allow peoples to express their faith but have the children and grandchildren go through the same school system as every other child in Ireland.

I have also heard what David McWilliams has said and I would be fully suportive of this measure. It would increase our workforce, increase the number of Irish speakers in Ireland, hopefully enlarge cities on the west coast and bring a new influx of possible talent never available to Ireland before.

But to bring "blood" into the debate in unhelpful.

[FutureTaoiseach]

I agree that we should make it easier for the Irish Diaspora to come 'home'. Lots of EU countries have a similar 'law of return' including Germany. They could be expected to have a certain loyalty to the country in the way that diaspora tend to have e.g. the Jewish-American support for Israel in the US. This would be a form of immigration that would be welcomed more by Irish people than immigration of cheap labour and from the hotbeds of Islamic fundamentalism. Encouraging cultural differences for their own sake is just divisive.

[farnaby]

Japan is the Only western Country that has little or No Social Problems especially due to their very strict Immigration Practises: 1% of their population is Migrant

I think we can learn from their ingenious policy that has made them prosperous and secure with their National Identity

Japan has plenty of social problems. They just don't have the problems that are associated elsewhere with immigrants - because they don't have immigration. But when it comes to judging their successes immigration has nothing to do with it, negatively or positively. And citing Japan's strong national identity is a bit risky given where it lead them less than 70 years ago.

There are 70 million people in our Tribe and for all the help they gave us; we should with enough maturity allow those who are loyal and willing enough to come back and rebuild our National Identity.

David Mcwilliams brought this to attention last year in The Generation Game: I hold these views aswell.

I've met plenty of 2nd and 3rd generation London Irish types I definitely wouldn't want in the country en masse, and with Irish Americans in particular integrated well into the American way of life I don't see how they would genuinely enhance your vision of national identity. Though I can see McWilliams' argument - that they would have sufficient cultural links to want to make an economic benefit (and vice versa).

[stewiegriffin]

What counts as the " diaspora" ? 70 million sounds ridiculous !
If someone is irish because of one grandparent , then how many of us might well be english ?
Me for a start cause my greatgranfather was english . So his son was technically "english" and so on and so forth .Ridiculous idea.

[essexboy]

You assume that all members of the Diaspora have positive views of Ireland but they do not.
Many of them are bitter at having to leave Ireland while others have happily settled in their adopted home and have no interest in Ireland.

[DaBrow]

You assume that all members of the Diaspora have positive views of Ireland but they do not.
Many of them are bitter at having to leave Ireland while others have happily settled in their adopted home and have no interest in Ireland.

Essexboy, I lived in the UK for 20 Years since very young and can certainly correct you in your belief that All of the Diaspora have positive views of Ireland.

As a former Expatriate, I hated the mentality and their bitterness of how Ireland failed them and their hatred of their own country ......... it made me sick.

They'd also have this smug attitude about how they are so much better off in the UK; that crap is overflowing in Irish Centres across the UK.

Yet only 10 Years ago, these same expatriates were and still traditionally looked down upon in Britain because they were from a former colony. This to me is ironic; they have smug attitudes about being better off than their countrymen yet are treated with contempt by their host country.

I still have relatives in the UK who want to moveback to Ireland; and no they weren't happy on leaving and weren't content in their adopted home.

[DaBrow]

Friends, Patriots and Worthy Opponents of Politics.ie,

I don't think that multi-culturalism and intergration is impossible if it is handled in the right way.

Allow peoples to express their faith but have the children and grandchildren go through the same school system as every other child in Ireland.

I have also heard what David McWilliams has said and I would be fully suportive of this measure. It would increase our workforce, increase the number of Irish speakers in Ireland, hopefully enlarge cities on the west coast and bring a new influx of possible talent never available to Ireland before.

But to bring "blood" into the debate in unhelpful.

L.O. Dublin S.C.,

thank you for your response. I'm glad that you would support this idea and we share some common ground.

However, I differ with you completely about Multi-culturalism being successful if handled properly. I've lived in a Diverse society and can confirm to you: It divides communities and gives more incentive not to even bother making the effort to integrate.

Your Former Leader Dick Spring spoke out on the subject Last year!

He commented on how all the new arrivals into Ireland he has seen: Make no effort to integrate with the Irish Population and this isn't a good sign.

As for "Blood" on determining Eligibility: I used that only because that is how your descence is established. I'm Norman-Irish but have Irish descent trhough the ages of Intermarring since 1170.

Something would have to distinguish peoples eligibility: Whether its found only to be Partial (Nothing or only the slightest bit Traceable) or ideally Strong enough (More than Traceable a dead cert) ........ Most Irish-Americans have some partial descent elsewhere which isn't a bad thing.

You can have an e.g.Italian Surname and have no lineage at all left.......... Cristina Ricci the Actress is more Ulster-Scots than Italian and Robert De Niro is another example aswell!

[DaBrow]

Japan has plenty of social problems. They just don't have the problems that are associated elsewhere with immigrants - because they don't have immigration. But when it comes to judging their successes immigration has nothing to do with it, negatively or positively. And citing Japan's strong national identity is a bit risky given where it lead them less than 70 years ago.

I've met plenty of 2nd and 3rd generation London Irish types I definitely wouldn't want in the country en masse, and with Irish Americans in particular integrated well into the American way of life I don't see how they would genuinely enhance your vision of national identity. Though I can see McWilliams' argument - that they would have sufficient cultural links to want to make an economic benefit (and vice versa).

Personally Farnaby, as I said earlier I lived in the UK.

Most Brits of Irish Descent I would certainly regard as unworthy e.g. Noel & Liam Gallagher for starters are Rejects of the Tribe....... About 90% of people who gave me a hard time in Britain for being Irish had Surnames like e.g. O'Rourke, Collins, Mooney

they are completely ignorant of their heritage and have no interest whatsoever...... they have nothing but shame for us

However there are a significant number of Irish-descended Brits (10%) who are worth being eligible.......... so slamming
all of them wouldn't be fair.

As For Irish-Americans they can enhance our National Identity and have played an important part in our Nation for over 160 Years...........

International and domestic entreprise in Ireland was funded by many wealthy US Nationals and the GFA was only possible because of Bill Clinton.

[L.O. Dublin S.C.]

Friends, Patriots and Worthy Opponents of Politics.ie,

I don't think that multi-culturalism and intergration is impossible if it is handled in the right way.

Allow peoples to express their faith but have the children and grandchildren go through the same school system as every other child in Ireland.

I have also heard what David McWilliams has said and I would be fully suportive of this measure. It would increase our workforce, increase the number of Irish speakers in Ireland, hopefully enlarge cities on the west coast and bring a new influx of possible talent never available to Ireland before.

But to bring "blood" into the debate in unhelpful.

L.O. Dublin S.C.,

thank you for your response. I'm glad that you would support this idea and we share some common ground.

Thanks very much for responding.

However, I differ with you completely about Multi-culturalism being successful if handled properly. I've lived in a Diverse society and can confirm to you: It divides communities and gives more incentive not to even bother making the effort to integrate. Your Former Leader Dick Spring spoke out on the subject Last year! He commented on how all the new arrivals into Ireland he has seen: Make no effort to integrate with the Irish Population and this isn't a good sign.

And I can comment on how I've met some of the new and old arrivals and their children that have made every effort to intergrate. We've all have different experiences.

As for "Blood" on determining Eligibility: I used that only because that is how your descence is established. I'm Norman-Irish but have Irish descent trhough the ages of Intermarring since 1170.

Something would have to distinguish peoples eligibility: Whether its found only to be Partial (Nothing or only the slightest bit Traceable) or ideally Strong enough (More than Traceable a dead cert) ........ Most Irish-Americans have some partial descent elsewhere which isn't a bad thing.

You can have an e.g.Italian Surname and have no lineage at all left.......... Cristina Ricci the Actress is more Ulster-Scots than Italian and Robert De Niro is another example aswell!

Something as simple as documents from the original Irish ansestor, wich should be attainable in any records office, would be alright with me. Better a person with little "Irish Blood" who was law abiding and knew a bit of the language and customs then someone with a lot of "Blood" who wasn't law abiding and knew nothing of our country.

Also does anyone think, like me, that knowing how to speak Irish could be a path to citizenship? We've been told numerous times we need x amount of speakers in y amount of years, so could this be the answer?

P.S. Don't mean to hijack the thread.