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  1. #21
    Cruimh Cruimh is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
    It should be universal criteria for both women and men if you cant pass that criteria than you're clearly not capable of doing the job and hence have no business to have that job peoples lives depend on it afterall.
    Should there be rigorous testing of all after, say, the age of 40 and if they fail to meet the starting requirement presumably they should be retired?
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  2. #22
    livingstone livingstone is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politics matters View Post
    In principle I believe they should. But for the most women shouldn't, unless they can prove that they're just as physically capable of men. In most instances females are usually weaker than men. I understand these facts may offend feminists, but you can't argue with biology. For the most part men are taller and physically stronger than women.

    The Defence Forces, the Gardai and the Fire-brigade themselves recognize that men and women are not equal. For instance to join the Defence Forces a male candidate is required to run 2.4 km in 11 mins and 40 seconds. While female candidates have the same distance to complete but are given 13 mins and 10 seconds. Candidates are also required to do two push ups correctly, women are allowed to do modified (easier) push-ups, men are not afforded such special treatment. So here we have the defence forces implicitly admitting that women are not strong as men and yet they permit them to join nonetheless.

    Defence Forces Fitness Tests | Fitness Testing Centre | Careers | Defence Forces

    Is it wise that we allow weaklings to join our front-line emergency services just because we want to achieve gender quotas in all fields of work? We're talking about life and death here after all. Is it right that members of the public are being protected by women who stand and 5ft 8 and weigh a puny eight stone? What about male Gardai who are forced to work alongside some of these women. Its hard to believe that these men would feel comfortable relying upon an average sized woman to protect them when $hit hits the fan.

    I'm not opposed to women joining the above institutions, but what I am against is the special treatment they're given during the recruitment process. If women want to join the Garda, the Army or the Fire brigade fine, but they shouldn't be treated any differently to men. If my policies were introduced most women would be kicked out, because its evident that most of them serving aren't up to it.

    Does anyone disagree with what I've just said?
    It rather depends on the purpose of the physical tests, doesn't it.

    For example, if I require someone to run X metres in Y minutes, that could be either because the job requires an ability to run at that specific speed; or it could be because someone, somewhere, has determined that that is an appropriate test to be a good proxy for a general level of fitness required for the job.

    If it's the former, then the standard should certainly apply across all applicants. If there is genuinely a need to run at a specific speed, and otherwise one cannot be an effective and good police officer, then it would be legitimate to impose that same standard for everyone.

    But if it's the latter, then the indicators of general fitness are not necessarily the same as for men and women.
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  3. #23
    Sweet Darling Sweet Darling is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politics matters View Post
    In principle I believe they should. But for the most women shouldn't, unless they can prove that they're just as physically capable of men. In most instances females are usually weaker than men. I understand these facts may offend feminists, but you can't argue with biology. For the most part men are taller and physically stronger than women.

    The Defence Forces, the Gardai and the Fire-brigade themselves recognize that men and women are not equal. For instance to join the Defence Forces a male candidate is required to run 2.4 km in 11 mins and 40 seconds. While female candidates have the same distance to complete but are given 13 mins and 10 seconds. Candidates are also required to do two push ups correctly, women are allowed to do modified (easier) push-ups, men are not afforded such special treatment. So here we have the defence forces implicitly admitting that women are not strong as men and yet they permit them to join nonetheless.

    Defence Forces Fitness Tests | Fitness Testing Centre | Careers | Defence Forces

    Is it wise that we allow weaklings to join our front-line emergency services just because we want to achieve gender quotas in all fields of work? We're talking about life and death here after all. Is it right that members of the public are being protected by women who stand and 5ft 8 and weigh a puny eight stone? What about male Gardai who are forced to work alongside some of these women. Its hard to believe that these men would feel comfortable relying upon an average sized woman to protect them when $hit hits the fan.

    I'm not opposed to women joining the above institutions, but what I am against is the special treatment they're given during the recruitment process. If women want to join the Garda, the Army or the Fire brigade fine, but they shouldn't be treated any differently to men. If my policies were introduced most women would be kicked out, because its evident that most of them serving aren't up to it.

    Does anyone disagree with what I've just said?
    Each service had to drop there standards in order for the ladies to pass
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  4. #24
    Politics matters Politics matters is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruimh View Post
    Women bring different skills and aptitudes to the jobs.

    If it is merely the perception of physical shortcomings such as height and strength that matters, presumably you think that the RCC should have female Priests?
    Yes I don't see why not.

    Women in my opinion are superior to men in other fields of work.

    I think women make better teachers, GP's and counselors than men.

    But when it comes to the Army, the Police or the Fire-brigade, by and large women aren't up to it. There is the exception, but mostly no, they shouldn't be in the job.
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  5. #25
    livingstone livingstone is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
    It should be universal criteria for both women and men if you cant pass that criteria than you're clearly not capable of doing the job and hence have no business to have that job peoples lives depend on it afterall.
    That rather depends on the purpose of the test, though.

    Is it designed to set a minimum speed requirement which is essential for the job? Or is it a proxy for a general level of fitness?
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  6. #26
    Sweet Darling Sweet Darling is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    Men of Asian and South American descent are shorter, on average, than men of European descent. Do you think we shouldn't allow men of Asian and South American descent to join the Gardaí, defence forces, etc.?
    Upper body strength is the factor here.
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  7. #27
    Watcher2 Watcher2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruimh View Post
    Should there be rigorous testing of all after, say, the age of 40 and if they fail to meet the starting requirement presumably they should be retired?
    Desk duty.
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  8. #28
    Watcher2 Watcher2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    Men of Asian and South American descent are shorter, on average, than men of European descent. Do you think we shouldn't allow men of Asian and South American descent to join the Gardaí, defence forces, etc.?
    If they don't meet the criteria, no, they should not be allowed join. And the criteria should be standardised at the highest level. Otherwise you risk public safety.
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  9. #29
    Politics matters Politics matters is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by livingstone View Post
    That rather depends on the purpose of the test, though.

    Is it designed to set a minimum speed requirement which is essential for the job? Or is it a proxy for a general level of fitness?
    Why do you think there should be different testing for men and women?

    Why do you think the Army lower the requirements for women?
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  10. #30
    Cruimh Cruimh is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher2 View Post
    Desk duty.
    So why not desk duty for those young men and women who don't meet requirements, freeing others for more active roles?
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