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  1. #191
    stopdoingstuff stopdoingstuff is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    It's like you deliberately set out to break as many grammatical rules as you could with that one.
    I hates that too.
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  2. #192
    OrderoftheDragon OrderoftheDragon is offline

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    Personally I think women should make up no more than 20% of the emergency/defence forces personnel, not because they are not capable of doing the job but mainly because when they get pregnant (which the majority of them will) they become a complete drain on the service.

    Of course the PC'ers will go bananas with this assertion, but it is the reality........
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  3. #193
    firefly123 firefly123 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher2 View Post
    Was it always like that? In other words, were standards kept at the same level even when women started to apply or were standards lowered in order that women could pass the requirements?
    Actually until relatively recently there was no real physical at all. The medical incorporated a grip strength test and there was a height and claustrophobia test. That was it.
    Now there is all that plus what is called the CPAT test (There is examples on the youtube) which is essentially a simulated make down at a fire.... running, lifting, carrying, dragging, more running etc over prox five minutes.
    It's draining and requires significant aerobic fitness and upper body strength.

    It's the same for male and female with no special changes.


    And rightly so.

    This kind of stuff breeds massive resentment and should not be allowed
    https://nypost.com/2015/12/27/unfire...s-to-the-fdny/


    As a firefighter I rely on my crew to protect me and support me. We all have different skills and experience but we all need to be able to gunter hose over obstacles or cut cars open and we all most definitely need to be able to drag each other out in a shtty situation. That requires technique as well as strength.
    Last edited by firefly123; 13th February 2018 at 12:50 AM.
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  4. #194
    livingstone livingstone is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher2 View Post
    Well, I do know that the weight of something doesn't change in the hands of a woman vs a mans.is body fat an entrance metric now?
    I think you should read what I posted. I explicitly posted that if something (for example ability to carry a certain weight) is a requirement to be able to do the job, then it should apply equally.

    If it is, however, a proxy and not a specific requirement in the role, then it should take account of different factors - with a proxy, the ultimate aim should be to discover whether the person has the characteristics you're seeking. So if a woman can demonstrate she is at peak fitness with different metrics to a man, then that would suffice.
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  5. #195
    silverharp silverharp is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by livingstone View Post
    I think you should read what I posted. I explicitly posted that if something (for example ability to carry a certain weight) is a requirement to be able to do the job, then it should apply equally.

    If it is, however, a proxy and not a specific requirement in the role, then it should take account of different factors - with a proxy, the ultimate aim should be to discover whether the person has the characteristics you're seeking. So if a woman can demonstrate she is at peak fitness with different metrics to a man, then that would suffice.
    with firemen again though you simply want the best you can afford, it would never be an advantage to have someone slower or someone that has to hit a door with an axe more times than someone else.

    feminist logic

    https://nypost.com/2015/05/03/woman-...-fitness-test/

    The FDNY for the first time in its history will allow someone who failed its crucial physical fitness test to join the Bravest, The Post has learned.

    Rebecca Wax, 33, is set to graduate Tuesday from the Fire Academy without passing the Functional Skills Training test, a grueling obstacle course of job-related tasks performed in full gear with a limited air supply, an insider has revealed.

    “They’re going to allow the first person to graduate without passing because this administration has lowered the standard,” said the insider, who is familiar with the training.

    Upon graduation, Wax would be assigned to a firehouse and tasked with the full duties of a firefighter.

    Some FDNY members are angry.
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  6. #196
    Calculusmadeeasy Calculusmadeeasy is offline
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  7. #197
    silverharp silverharp is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calculusmadeeasy View Post
    all the feminists will be along now to tell you facts are irrelevant
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  8. #198
    CatullusV CatullusV is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderoftheDragon View Post
    Personally I think women should make up no more than 20% of the emergency/defence forces personnel, not because they are not capable of doing the job but mainly because when they get pregnant (which the majority of them will) they become a complete drain on the service.

    Of course the PC'ers will go bananas with this assertion, but it is the reality........
    You do know that any adequate resource planner includes pregnancies as a possibility?
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  9. #199
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

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    Given that war, firefighting, engineering and so on are more about tactics and use of resources than brawn these days I'd say there should be no issue at all with women in the Defence Forces, Gardai and Fire Brigades.

    Russian women did very well in fighting the Germans and indeed there were notable female air aces who fought against the Luftwaffe in the defence of Russia. There were certainly Russian women in the frontline against German troops.

    If all you want is a load of people to walk across a shell-shot misty battleground into machine-gun fire then I fail to see what difference gender makes.

    A female sniper hidden on a rooftop is no less effective a challenge than a male sniper on a rooftop.

    I can think of some positive advantages to female firefighters- more dextrous in confined spaces, use less tanked oxygen in a search of a building where there may be trapped victims and so on.

    In my life the best bit of policing, crowd control and conflict management I've ever seen was from a female police officer on a horse in an increasingly alarming situation between a large football crowd and some diabolically stupid male police officers not in control of their adrenaline.
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  10. #200
    Lagertha Lagertha is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverharp View Post
    my comment was about the FDNY , one should want the people that can carry the most , knock down doors the quickest etc. and thats going to be men with a tiny number of exceptional women
    I take your point, but the flip side of your argument is that men are only suitable as fire fighters because of physical strength. Fire fighting is about more than physical strength and when I see fire fighters they work as a team, usually. Gender shouldn't be an issue, it should be based on ability and aptitude.
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