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  1. #21
    che schifo che schifo is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    No. Freedom of religion does not include the right to break the law. Just like priests who sexually abuse kids or embezzle parish funds, or Islamic terrorists, etc, etc, etc.
    The problem of Islamic terrorism may have been solved on another thread. A few brave posters are going to step up, pork swords in hand, ready to defend our island. They haven't specified if they'll be brandishing their own pork swords or each other's but they'll have a firm grip either way..,
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  2. #22
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by che schifo View Post
    The problem of Islamic terrorism may have been solved on another thread. A few brave posters are going to step up, pork swords in hand, ready to defend our island. They haven't specified if they'll be brandishing their own pork swords or each other's but they'll have a firm grip either way..,
    Are they forming a circle?
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  3. #23
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

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    Such a dangerous phrase in a constitution that- 'contrary to public order and morality'. It implies that there is a common understanding of both public order and morality in a large group of people and that is a hell of an assumption.

    Many people in Ireland would assume that there is a constitutional right to free assembly and freedom of speech because such concepts are mentioned in the constitution but what they don't realise is that both principles can be suspended in the judgement of the Minister for Justice of the day.

    Which means they are effectively in the gift of a come-day go-day politician at any given time.

    If the phrase in the constitution instead of 'public order and decency' read 'subject to the laws of the state' then we'd be in a better place but then the reason that such vague and subjective terms as 'public order and decency' are in there is because one cult was allowed to decide in the past largely what those terms meant and they would never have subjected themselves to Irish law willingly.
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  4. #24
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot View Post
    Such a dangerous phrase in a constitution that- 'contrary to public order and morality'. It implies that there is a common understanding of both public order and morality in a large group of people and that is a hell of an assumption.

    Many people in Ireland would assume that there is a constitutional right to free assembly and freedom of speech because such concepts are mentioned in the constitution but what they don't realise is that both principles can be suspended in the judgement of the Minister for Justice of the day.

    Which means they are effectively in the gift of a come-day go-day politician at any given time.

    If the phrase in the constitution instead of 'public order and decency' read 'subject to the laws of the state' then we'd be in a better place but then the reason that such vague and subjective terms as 'public order and decency' are in there is because one cult was allowed to decide in the past largely what those terms meant and they would never have subjected themselves to Irish law willingly.
    Bunreacht needs a complete overhaul.
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  5. #25
    Niall996 Niall996 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    Bunreacht is anything but vague:


    So, unless Scientology (which I abhor, BTW) can be demonstrated to be contrary to 'public order and morality', people are free to practice it. And it's not the job of an individual politician to decide what constitutes 'public order and morality'.
    Well there you go. Completely vague. And it shows the madness of a religion infused constitution. Where in the Bun Racked does it define public morality.
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  6. #26
    IvoShandor IvoShandor is offline
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    Until the moment comes to speak one's mind and one has the facts at one's fingertips , it's no harm for politicians to follow the maxim ""Never lose the opportunity to keep your mouth shut"
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  7. #27
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    Bunreacht needs a complete overhaul.
    Long overdue in a number of areas I'd suggest. Then again there is a common misunderstanding about the constitution in the population- that it is some kind of immovable object and that it should operate as a kind of barrier against change. This is absolutely incorrect and those who framed the constitution in Ireland actually pointed out that it should properly move with the nation.

    However going back to the subject of this thread it isn't the job of the Taoiseach to tackle religious cults whether they be xtian or formed by Hollywood or wherever they come from.

    I would suggest any concerns about cults should be dealt with in law via the expression of what loyalties are expected of civil and public servants, politicians and those in roles of civil authority being only to the law without fear or favour and I would agree with a law that spelled out adherence to ANY organisation or movement whether spiritual or social which brings any of the above officers into conflict with their expected loyalties should be declared. Any act or deliberate inaction undeclared on behalf of any such group in conflict with duties to the state should result in sanctions which include dismissal, recall, or imprisonment.
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  8. #28
    automaticforthepeople automaticforthepeople is offline
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    Scientology fleeces financially the victims who are wealthy enough that it lets join. If a political opponent proposed to raise taxes and empty out a citizens pockets, the same Dr Leo would be jumping up and down about protecting those who get up early in the morning.
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  9. #29
    Eoin Coir Eoin Coir is offline
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    Leo has to be careful. In the 1950s a group of Clare RC Thugs physically attacked Jehovah Witnesses in Kilrush- result the latter were convicted in court of riotous behaviour (not the Clare louts)and the Taoiseach of the day JAC defended the court decision. Its akin to Fethard on Sea episode.
    Last edited by Eoin Coir; 26th December 2017 at 11:36 AM.
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  10. #30
    automaticforthepeople automaticforthepeople is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eoin Coir View Post
    Leo has to be careful. In the 1950s a group of Clare RC Thugs attached Jehovah Witnesses in Kilrush- result the latter were convicted in court of riotous behaviour (not the Clare louts)and the Taoiseach of the day JAC defended the court decision. Its akin to Fethard on Sea episode.
    No it's not. Fethard on Sea was a boycott based on religious sectarianism within a community. Scientology is based on fleecing vulnerable punters as anyone who every took the famous personality test will tell you. Where was Scientology in the last few years when it came to providing for homeless and those in debt in this country?
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