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  1. #231
    Glenshane4 Glenshane4 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruimh View Post
    Erm - most Catholic Children in NI attend Catholic Schools ....

    Whoops .....
    Not all Catholic children in Northern Ireland attend Catholic schools - unfortunately. There are no Catholic Colleges of Further Education. Nor are there any Catholic Universities. Aggression against Catholics is widespread in those non-Catholic institutions.
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  2. #232
    Glenshane4 Glenshane4 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot View Post
    Perhaps the question to be asked is if your child was unfortunate enough to run into one of the wrong 'uns would the concern be around the welfare of the child or the 'good name' of the church?

    Weigh up what we know of that sort of ethical choice thus far in church circles and make your own mind up. Bearing in mind this organisation which seems to feel it has the right to have access to children in schools to teach them ancient judaic insanity is probably the least trustworthy organisation in the world in terms of child protection at this point in time.
    If you do not like Catholic schools, do not send your dear child to a Catholic school. If there are no non-Catholic schools in your locality, get moving and establish one - just as Catholics established ours, just as Protestants established theirs, just as Muslims are establishing theirs.
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  3. #233
    GJG GJG is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    I actually welcome this.

    The Institutional Church in Ireland has very little integral Christianity left in it and the Religious Instruction that kids are receiving is much more lula pansy puff humanist sentimentality than anything to do with historic Catholicism. I wont name them because they are, or at least very much come across on here as, good men but two posters here who are considered arch-Conservative sinister Rightist Catholics have come out with statements that are theologically very troubling from a Catholic perspective; one of them said that we should believe in evolution and also said that he didn't believe that God commanded circumcision of Abraham. The other said that not only was the life of doing public worldly good works superior to the contemplative life of ascetic struggle but that people who engaged in only the latter couldn't really be Saints. This really shows the level of Religious instruction people are receiving.

    I think that those who can should either home school or send their kids to Hors Contract schools in France, but not everyone is in a position to do so. However I think this move will force a lot of parents to take seriously their duties to pass the Faith down to their kids.
    I think we actually have some common ground here.

    I think religion is crock, but I strongly believe in religious freedom. The RCC has a disgraceful record in Ireland of using its power to bully people outside and inside its flock to follow a specific brand of Catholicism, and have the taxpayer pick up the tab.

    I have been saying for a while that it is in the interest of people who regard themselves as traditional Catholics to give up on their project of social control. When 90 per cent or more of the population were practicing Catholics - even if many of them weren't so sincere - they saw the advantage of using their moral hegemony to corral the whole population into their camp. It shouldn't have taken a lot of foresight to see that that strategy would come back to bite them in the ass once they lost their dominant numerical position.

    Nevertheless, I support religious freedom, even for people who donít.

    It seems to me that the smart thing for traditional Catholics to do would be to get ahead of the game and promote a settlement where state-funded schools teach real education Ė the three Rs, History, Geography and so on Ė and any religious group can have, say, Wednesday afternoons to take their members for whatever religious instruction they see fit. They can have the building at no cost, and they supply the teachers to teach whatever they want, as long as it isnít wantonly abusive.

    If they persist in defending everything they hold, they will effectively be defending nothing and will quickly have either no access to the schools for any religion, or (worst of all, in my view) have some sort of state-approved happy-clappy mishmash that is designed to offend nobody.
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  4. #234
    Glenshane4 Glenshane4 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by GJG View Post

    It seems to me that the smart thing for traditional Catholics to do would be to get ahead of the game and promote a settlement where state-funded schools teach real education – the three Rs, History, Geography and so on – and any religious group can have, say, Wednesday afternoons to take their members for whatever religious instruction they see fit. They can have the building at no cost, and they supply the teachers to teach whatever they want, as long as it isn’t wantonly abusive.

    If they persist in defending everything they hold, they will effectively be defending nothing and will quickly have either no access to the schools for any religion, or (worst of all, in my view) have some sort of state-approved happy-clappy mishmash that is designed to offend nobody.
    Your plan would mean Catholic children having to sit in the same classrooms as their enemies and having to submit to the authority of anti-Catholic teachers. The only way Catholic children can be safe is for them to attend schools controlled by Catholics in the interests of Catholics.

    I can see nothing smart about Catholics surrendering ownership or control of any of their schools.
    Last edited by Glenshane4; 30th December 2017 at 08:13 PM.
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  5. #235
    GJG GJG is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenshane4 View Post
    Your plan would mean Catholic children having to sit in the same classrooms as their enemies and having to submit to the authority of anti-Catholic teachers. The only way Catholic children can be safe is for them to attend schools controlled by Catholics in the interests of Catholics.

    I can see nothing smart about Catholics surrendering ownership or control of any of their its schools.
    Well, snowflake, if you believe that little catholic Johnny is 'in danger' from sitting between little protestant Jane and little atheist Michael in class, I can see how that makes sense to you. It doesn't say much for your level of faith though. Not to mention that schools 'controlled by Catholics' haven't proven all that safe.

    But my point is that your viewpoint is not widely held. When it (or some version of it) was, bullying everyone else into that system may have seemed smart. But few even of the 78 per cent who claim to be Catholics follow your point of view, so if we are to continue with a state-supported ideology, it won't be yours.

    That said, if you want a school where your ever-so-delicate ideology is protected from shrivelling up when exposed to other ideas, crack on ahead, just donít expect the taxpayer to pony up for it.
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  6. #236
    Glenshane4 Glenshane4 is offline

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    [QUOTE=GJG;11725280]

    "Well, snowflake, if you believe that little catholic Johnny is 'in danger' from sitting between little protestant Jane and little atheist Michael in class, I can see how that makes sense to you. It doesn't say much for your level of faith though. Not to mention that schools 'controlled by Catholics' haven't proven all that safe."

    Please mind your manners. Leave it to Catholics to decide where their children are educated.

    "But my point is that your viewpoint is not widely held."

    So what? Even if only 1% of the population were Catholics, the Catholic Church would have the right to control ALL the schools which it owns.

    "When it (or some version of it) was, bullying everyone else into that system may have seemed smart."

    If you do not like the Catholic education system do not send your child to a Catholic school.

    "But few even of the 78 per cent who claim to be Catholics follow your point of view, so if we are to continue with a state-supported ideology, it won't be yours."

    Catholic schools have a right to be paid by the State for services rendered. Likewise road contractors, Protestant schools, Muslim schools and Educate Together schools.

    "That said, if you want a school where your ever-so-delicate ideology is protected from shriveling up when exposed to other ideas, crack on ahead, just don’t expect the taxpayer to pony up for it."

    Many taxpayers are Catholics. Are you insinuating that Catholics should pay tax to educate the children of anti-Catholics while funding the education of their own children from their own pockets?
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