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  1. #21
    devoutcapitalist devoutcapitalist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsReasonable View Post
    Ah yes, I seem to remember that now. Fair enough. What happened that policy?
    Ditched as Labour held the education portfolio from 2011-16.
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  2. #22
    ThatsReasonable ThatsReasonable is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by devoutcapitalist View Post
    Ditched as Labour held the education portfolio from 2011-16.
    Ruarai Quinn ruled it out?? Wow.
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  3. #23
    Nitrogen Nitrogen is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Of Newgrange View Post
    Surely lots of Brits living in ireland ( plus the Poles, Romanians, Hungarians, Syrians etc ) would vote for a party that let their kids off the Compulsory irish hook. Seems fair enough. If i lived in Wales, i would not like to see my kids forced to learn Welsh. And my ability to help them with homework would be zero.
    At a guess, I don't think it bothers them that much. Or at least not enough for them to make a fuss about it.

    I think most newcomers go with the flow if at all possible, "when on Rome" etc, as much out of politeness as anything else.

    They will tolerate it as long as the native Irish do. But I think your analogy with the collapse of the Irish RCC is apt. Values that are beyond question for one generation can easily be discarded by the next.
    In fact, if anything I would say that the Irish RCC collapse actually delayed the inevitable decline of the Irish language by a decade or two. The collapse of one pillar of cultural certainty, I think, caused people to cling onto the other one all the more. But that won't last of course. The inexorable decline in the standard of Irish taught in schools is evidence of that.
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  4. #24
    JCR JCR is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    I think the first step in promoting Irish must be to teach people that languages are not only valuable as tools of communication. The second step should be to teach people about the history of Ireland and the Irish language. Once that it done, the value of maintaining and promoting the language should become apparent.
    Actually I think the value of ditching the language for good becomes apparent once you have the "history" of Ireland shoved down your throat by nationalist propaganda peddling teachers, (basically the Irish schools history curriculum). You realise that having Gaelic shoved down your throat as the only Irish language, "your" language is bullsh1t, and there is no "race" or glorious Gael identity,

    (The pure Gaelic race if you don't mind).
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  5. #25
    LISTOWEL MAN LISTOWEL MAN is offline
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    we let the irish language become a kinda elitist thing
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  6. #26
    devoutcapitalist devoutcapitalist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsReasonable View Post
    Ruarai Quinn ruled it out?? Wow.
    He didn't exactly persuade his ministerial colleagues to make Irish an optional subject.
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  7. #27
    Ireniall Ireniall is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Of Newgrange View Post
    the parallel here is Catholicism. In the 20th Century all major parties and institutions were very catholic. Any deviation from this was, literally, sacrilege. Then the dams burst and the rest is history.

    The next revolution will be a major rejection of an old dead language. Multicultural, 21st Century, post-troubles Ireland's kids don't watch the Nuacht. Soon the Dams will burst.
    The trouble with Catholicism was that it wasn't particularly Irish at all just that it's adherents usurped the Irish identity and ignorantly denied important basic human rights to the whole population. The Irish language though is what actually makes us Irish. Clearly it is never coming back as the spoken language but the Irish state, quite rightly, has an opinion as to whether it should die out or not. I do not agree with the spending of millions to translate EU documents simply because Irish has an official status but seriously -if you object to road signs written in the third language in Europe to be written down alongside the language of the Germanic barbarians which is the de facto spoken language of the country then I'm sure there's some soul-less English suburban estate somewhere that can accommodate your tastes.
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  8. #28
    mangaire1 mangaire1 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCR View Post
    Actually I think the value of ditching the language for good becomes apparent once you have the "history" of Ireland shoved down your throat by nationalist propaganda peddling teachers, (basically the Irish schools history curriculum). You realise that having Gaelic shoved down your throat as the only Irish language, "your" language is bullsh1t, and there is no "race" or glorious Gael identity,

    (The pure Gaelic race if you don't mind).
    "the "history" of Ireland shoved down your throat"
    "Gaelic shoved down your throat"


    no wonder you have a sore throat, & it seemed to have affected your brain too - poor geezer,
    & maybe that explains why you need to curry your yogurt ?

    anyway, I went to school to Na Bráithre Criostaí, & many would argue that they shoved everything down our throats - not only Gaeilge, but English, Geography, Science ...... too.
    i got a reasonable Leaving Cert, & my life has been all the better for that,
    so looking back, I have no problem at all now that the much maligned Bráithre 'shoved' English, Geography ...... as well as Gaeilge 'down my throat'.

    as for Gaeilge - I had an excellent command of the language, on leaving Secondary School, but rarely used it for a couple of decades afterwards.
    although I retained the ability to understand just about everything I heard on radio/TV, as Gaeilge, my ability to put a few words together almost disappeared.
    so about 10/12 years ago, I started attending night classes & the spoken & written command that I once had as Gaeilge, began to return.
    & I also began to develop an appreciation for our native language that I certainly had not as an 18 year old,
    & I understood for the first time, that my grandfather & every one of my ancestors for perhaps a hundred generations spoke Gaeilge, the native language of Ireland,
    & it was not until the latter decades of the 19th century that English begun to be 'shoved down their throats'.
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  9. #29
    Mushroom Mushroom is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    I think the first step in promoting Irish must be to teach people that languages are not only valuable as tools of communication. The second step should be to teach people about the history of Ireland and the Irish language. Once that it done, the value of maintaining and promoting the language should become apparent.
    And who do you think should do the teaching?

    It's beyond rational argument that it couldn't be any member of ASTI, TUI or INTO.
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  10. #30
    Nitrogen Nitrogen is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ireniall View Post
    The trouble with Catholicism was that it wasn't particularly Irish at all .
    Err, Indeed, the clue is in the name, "Catholic", meaning universal i.e. no national affiliation.

    And for all it's faults, and there are many, surely that's a good thing. I've always been a bit uneasy with those churches that define themselves by their country (Church of England, Scotland, etc).

    The problem was that the Irish RCC allowed nationalist to hijack it and use it a vehicle to promote sectarianism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ireniall View Post
    The Irish language though is what actually makes us Irish.
    Problem with that line of argument is that it implies that without the language we are not really a legitimate country, which seems a bit harsh. Also, given the perilous state of the language, it creates a bit of a political dilemma in the North where there appears to be a blatant attempt at resurrecting an all but dead language so as to reinforce sectarian differences.
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