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  1. #361
    offalypat offalypat is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dearghoul View Post
    Where do you get your figures from Pat?

    The population of the Brown Hare in the UK is estimated at 700,000.
    it used to be at around 4 million and the hare population has dropped by about 43% in the last 20 years according to a survey on the hoppington post google it and bear in mind that hare coursing has ended in england since 2004
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  2. #362
    Dearghoul Dearghoul is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by offalypat View Post
    it used to be at around 4 million and the hare population has dropped by about 43% in the last 20 years according to a survey on the hoppington post google it and bear in mind that hare coursing has ended in england since 2004
    I know its in steep decline, but I'd suggest thats more to do with farming practices, more ranching and fewer hedgerows and rough ground to hide up in than shooting. If the numbers you cited were true they'd be gone within a very few years. They can produce a litter of leverets up to three times in a year but the mortality rate in the young is exceptionally high and plus point 5 of the replacement population is the best they could hope to achieve.

    I'm fundamentally opposed to scaring them half to death even if they're released afterwards. A truly wild mammal like this will not take well to the trauma at all and may refuse to mate or simply curl up and die after the shock of the ordeal.

    Your point about the trauma caused to horses on National Hunt fields is well made and taken. Thankfully once the green screen goes up the process is quick and merciful. Twenty years ago neither the jockey nor horse got a mention. It was only fifteen years ago that 'jockeys ok', was considered nessecary, and now 'jockey and horse, on their feet' is considered the norm. The day when a camera dips behind the green screens will be a watershed moment where many may have to question their allegiances to our sport.
    Last edited by Dearghoul; 4th January 2018 at 01:39 AM.
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  3. #363
    offalypat offalypat is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dearghoul View Post
    I know its in steep decline, but I'd suggest thats more to do with farming practices, more ranching and fewer hedgerows and rough ground to hide up in than shooting. If the numbers you cited were true they'd be gone within a very few years. They can produce a litter of leverets up to three times in a year but the mortality rate in the young is exceptionally high and plus point 5 of the replacement population is the best they could hope to achieve.

    I'm fundamentally opposed to scaring them half to death even if they're released afterwards. A truly wild mammal like this will not take well to the trauma at all and may refuse to mate or simply curl up and die after the shock of the ordeal.

    Your point about the trauma caused to horses on National Hunt fields is well made and taken. Thankfully once the green screen goes up the process is quick and merciful. Twenty years ago neither the jockey nor horse got a mention. It was only fifteen years ago that 'jockeys ok', was considered nessecary, and now 'jockey and horse, on their feet' is considered the norm. The day when a camera dips behind the green screens will be a watershed moment where many may have to question their allegiances to our sport.
    i know a few travellers with their lurchers and hunting dogs and they hunt hares all through the year and brag about and even take and show videos of their dogs hunting and killing hares but the one thing i noticed them saying is you couldnt kill or get near the hare in certain places and when i enquired those places were where the coursing clubs catch and release their hares.i was talking to a friend of mine and he is in a gun club and when they are on beats for foxes which they get points in their club for different types of wild animals and birds they kill they are told to shoot every hare that comes out of the woods or grove because if they dont the hounds will pick up the cent of the hare and will go for miles after them.i have greyhounds and look after them very well and i have no interest in coursing as a matter of fact i havent been to a coursing meeting in the last 30 years but i do know one thing for sure that if everyone looked after the welfare of the hare as much as the greyhound folk the hare population would not be in decline but it seems the whole sporting and soap loving people in this country are against greyhounds.
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  4. #364
    Bea C Bea C is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by offalypat View Post
    one of the best loved and funniest films is man about dog and it was shown over the christmas.as for hare coursing can you tell me for fact how many hares were killed in our coursing fields last year i wont ask you about this year because it is not over yet.now when you come up with your figure see how it compares with the FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND HARES THAT ARE SHOT IN THE UK EVERY YEAR AND BEAR IN MIND HOW LONG IT IS SINCE HARE COURSING HAS BEEN BANNED OVER THERE AND THE POPULATION OF HARES ARE DECLINING AT ALARMING RATES EVEN WHEN THERE IS NO COURSING.when will they show the race horses being PUT down at our and u.k horse racing after a fall at our lawdy daw race courses what would people think of that if it was shown instead of covering it up.
    Firstly, I'd find that hard to believe.
    Irrespective, there is no comparison between shooting and coursing: both are wrong, but incomparable. One is BANG of of animal out in its environment until its very sudden death. The other is the imprisonment of that solitary animal for weeks, if not months, shoved in amongst dozens of others. Then there is the closed chase, the flinging up into the air, the broken limbs, etc etc etc.

    And even were your argument re Britain valid, how the hell does that excuse us doing similar or the same? That's like Assad pointing to central Africa as a defence or some f**king thing
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  5. #365
    offalypat offalypat is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bea C View Post
    Firstly, I'd find that hard to believe.
    Irrespective, there is no comparison between shooting and coursing: both are wrong, but incomparable. One is BANG of of animal out in its environment until its very sudden death. The other is the imprisonment of that solitary animal for weeks, if not months, shoved in amongst dozens of others. Then there is the closed chase, the flinging up into the air, the broken limbs, etc etc etc.

    And even were your argument re Britain valid, how the hell does that excuse us doing similar or the same? That's like Assad pointing to central Africa as a defence or some f**king thing
    did you ever go out into the countryside with someone shooting that is my first question to you.
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  6. #366
    Bea C Bea C is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by offalypat View Post
    did you ever go out into the countryside with someone shooting that is my first question to you.
    No.
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  7. #367
    offalypat offalypat is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bea C View Post
    No.
    you know it works like this you have lads with shot guns and they fire at game like ducks phesants and then they fire at foxes and hares and rabbits and unlike the movies where you see the shots being fired and the target drops dead in an instance the thruth is that about 50% of what they fire at in real life get away wounded full of led and are left dying for hours and days even weeks and can you imagine the suffering the animals go through in that time.
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  8. #368
    Karloff Karloff is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by offalypat View Post
    you know it works like this you have lads with shot guns and they fire at game like ducks phesants and then they fire at foxes and hares and rabbits and unlike the movies where you see the shots being fired and the target drops dead in an instance the thruth is that about 50% of what they fire at in real life get away wounded full of led and are left dying for hours and days even weeks and can you imagine the suffering the animals go through in that time.
    I sometimes think so many of the world's problems can be laid at the door of young men.

    They are the most antisocial of all demographic groups (generally speaking) by a landslide.
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  9. #369
    Bea C Bea C is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by offalypat View Post
    you know it works like this you have lads with shot guns and they fire at game like ducks phesants and then they fire at foxes and hares and rabbits and unlike the movies where you see the shots being fired and the target drops dead in an instance the thruth is that about 50% of what they fire at in real life get away wounded full of led and are left dying for hours and days even weeks and can you imagine the suffering the animals go through in that time.
    I'm not defending shooting, Pat.
    Stop portraying it as if I am.
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  10. #370
    offalypat offalypat is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bea C View Post
    I'm not defending shooting, Pat.
    Stop portraying it as if I am.
    i know you are not but sometimes people have to wake up to the facts as regards animal cruelty and not be lured into looking the other way and that is what the irish greyhound is being used for when there are far worse carrying on than the greyhounds and that needs to be addressed before anyone can start pointing the whole cruelty thing soley at the feet of greyhounds let it be either track or coursing
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