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  1. #11
    ffc ffc is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ireallyshouldknowbetter View Post
    I see you're a keen historical scholar.
    Marx was an economist, who critiqued 19th century capitalism, a capitalism which was killing millions, even in this country where the forefathers of P.ie were starving to death on the roadside.
    His definition of how capitalism works was an essential platform by which it was, eventually, civilised by socialism.
    Without Marx, capitalism would have died long ago. Ironically, the formation of unions and labour movements, inspired by Marx, allowed the workers to form collectives. These collectives, trade unions, socialist political parties civilized capitalism and forced the redistribution of wealth, which capitalists vehemently opposed at every turn. Without that redistribution capitalism would have failed long ago.
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  2. #12
    jmcc jmcc is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by monsieur chat View Post
    So maybe a rebranding is in order. If Nazi-ism can have a successful rebranding as alt-right then how do we rebrand Marxism?
    Right Useful Fools.
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  3. #13
    Catalpast Catalpast is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffc View Post
    Marx was an economist, who critiqued 19th century capitalism, a capitalism which was killing millions, even in this country where the forefathers of P.ie were starving to death on the roadside.
    His definition of how capitalism works was an essential platform by which it was, eventually, civilised by socialism.
    Without Marx, capitalism would have died long ago. Ironically, the formation of unions and labour movements, inspired by Marx, allowed the workers to form collectives. These collectives, trade unions, socialist political parties civilized capitalism and forced the redistribution of wealth, which capitalists vehemently opposed at every turn. Without that redistribution capitalism would have failed long ago.
    Marx wasn't really known Internationally until after the Communists seized Power in Russia in 1917

    'Communism'* and Socialism pre dated him

    - and peaked long after his death

    Herr Marx was petty Bourgeois to his fingertips....

    Fun Fact: He never held a paid job in his Life....

    Up the Workers!

    * Though in fairness he and Engels did make it far better known that is was previous to TCM in 1848
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  4. #14
    ffc ffc is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    Marx wasn't really known Internationally until after the Communists seized Power in Russia in 1917

    'Communism'* and Socialism pre dated him

    - and peaked long after his death

    Herr Marx was petty Bourgeois to his fingertips....

    Fun Fact: He never held a paid job in his Life....

    Up the Workers!

    * Though in fairness he and Engels did make it far better known that is was previous to TCM in 1848
    But there is no doubt his ideas and his deconstruction of capitalism was an inspiration to labour movements across the world.
    These Labour movements have made an enormously positive contribution to human welfare. The threat of revolution, and the collective power of unions, coupled with democratic evolution, forced the redistribution of wealth.
    There is a simple maxim to any capitalist boss,when it comes to labour, and it still applies today.
    " I will get the most productive worker possible, and pay him the lowest wage possible" . The workers power lies in the collective, which Marx recognized , and which also still applies today.

    Talking about the gulags is a distraction, you may as well blame Jesus Christ for the Spanish Inquisition .
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  5. #15
    Henry94. Henry94. is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsieur chat View Post
    Marx was German , he died thirty years before the Russian revolution.

    But I accept ignorance is deep-seated and terms like Marxism and socialism have troublesome connotations for the simple-minded. In the US, to take an extreme example, Obama and Hillary Clinton are often cited as 'socialists' and 'liberals', so degraded is the use and understanding of these terms...

    So maybe a rebranding is in order. If Nazi-ism can have a successful rebranding as alt-right then how do we rebrand Marxism?

    Nobody is saying Marx was personally responsible for the revolution but Marxists were and Marx is only remembered at all because of them. There is no need to rebrand Marxism. Weíre not selling Marxism. We selling or should be selling a better life for working people. The first item on the agenda is the market system. Have we a workable alternative? No we donít. Should we then accept that the market must be part of a better future? We have no choice if we are serious. Yes it must be regulated and governed but it canít be abolished.

    That for me is the first test of political seriousness for anyone on the left.
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  6. #16
    Sync Sync is offline
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    Forget the failures
    Don’t be husky
    Come along and be a russkie!
    Last edited by Sync; 26th November 2017 at 11:21 AM.
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  7. #17
    bormotello bormotello is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsieur chat View Post
    So maybe a rebranding is in order. If Nazi-ism can have a successful rebranding as alt-right then how do we rebrand Marxism?
    SJW, cultural marxism, sanders supporters etc
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  8. #18
    Analyzer Analyzer is offline
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    One of the biggest disasters to hit humanity was Trotsky who is used by Marxists as an altrrnative to Lenin and Stalin.

    It is a hard sell.

    In the 1920s the Bolsheviks choose Stalin over Trotsky because Trotsky was a crackpot responsible for the death of millions.

    But that is just another episode of butchery to be swept beneath the carpet brneath the promise of socialist control of the individual.
    Last edited by Analyzer; 26th November 2017 at 11:53 AM.
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  9. #19
    monsieur chat monsieur chat is offline
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    Isn't 'social justice warrior' used only as a term of abuse? Does anyone actually refer to themselves as a SJW?
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  10. #20
    razorblade razorblade is offline

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    Disgraceful its an ideology which murdered hundreds of millions and yet there is still morons who think its worth celebrating including our own clown of a president, what if someone was to take to the streets holding up a Swastika well this is no different but its bizarrely treated as such.
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