Non-Leninist Marxism

[Starkadder]

I forgot to mention the DeLeonists, a group of anti-Leninist Socialists in the US,
whose main party is the tiny Socialist Labor Party of America.
There's also the small non-Leninist Socialist Party of Great Britain

[cropbeye]

There is a lot to be said for the Menshkevites.

[Jolly Red Giant]

There is a lot to be said for the Menshkevites.

Yep - pro-capitalist - pro-war - pro-landlordism etc. etc. etc.

[Defeated Romanticist]

Been through this before popper

China,

Not a Marxist revolution - indeed Mao's forces launched attacks on Marxists during the revolution, for organising strike action against the Chinese regime, in order to prevent genuine Marxisit forces gaining support among the urban working class. The Chinese revolution was based on the peasentry and as such could not be Marxist (only a revolution organised of and by the urban working classes could be described as such)

Vietnam,

Similar to China above - a peasant basd guerrilla movement that also eliminated Marxist forces in Vietnam

North Korea,

No revolution at all - Russia imposed a regime and systematically eliminated the small Marxist forces in the country.

Cambodia,

The monarch Sihanouk was ousted in by a pro-US military coup for being neutral in the Vietnam war. The Khmer Rouge were actually openly aligned with Sihanouk and the Chinese regime. After they came to power Pol Pot installed Sihanouk as head of state and used him to attack 'communist' Vietnam in the UN. Sihanouk again became head of state after Pol Pot was ousted by 'communist' Vietnam and after became King.

Angola,

Stalinist army officials came to power in a military coup ousting the Portugese and leading to a three way civil war in which various sides were supported by different world powers - all of the factions were based on tribal loyalty than political affiliation.

Hungary,

Stalinists moved, with the compliance of the West, to eliminate Marxists forces in the aftermath of WW2 and impose a Stalinist regime as part of the Sovietisation of Eastern Europe.

Poland, Czecholsovakia, Yugoslavia,

As above -

Cuba,

The 26th of July movement was a petty-bourgeois nationalist movement with left elements (like Che Guevara) within it. When Castro overthrew Batista (a quite vicious pro-American dictator) he attempted to come to an accomodation with the US administration - but was rebuked - he then turned to the Stalinist regime in Russia to bail him out. He was forced to nationalise large sections of the Cuban economy because of widespread strike action by the Cuban working class - despite the fact that he had no intention of doing so.

Bulgaria,

Similar to Hungary, Poland etc.

Mozambizue,

The FRELIMO was a petty-bourgeios nationalist movement (like Castro's) that only came to power because of the decision by the Socialist government in Portugal (that overthrew the dictatorship of Salazar) to grant the country independence. The aligned themselves with Stalinist Russia because the West (through the regimes in Rhodesia and South Africa) backed anti-government warlords in an attempt to regain control of Mozambiques mining resources.

Ethiopia,

Military coup by Stalinist officers that immediately sought military aid to fight a war in the Horn of Africa - no Marxist or working class involvement

..... fill in the rest yourself.

You have yet to outline a single Marxist Revolution - all you have done is indicate a serious of post-WW2 regimes established by Stalinist Russia (with the consent of the Western Powers) or neo-colonial petty-bourgeois nationalist movements that the West opposed because they took control of natural resources out of western corporate hands and were then forced to align themselves with Stalinist Russia.

Interestingly you have ignored Revolutions that did have a significant Marxist component - Germany 1919 - Spain in the mid-1930s where between them the Fascists and Stalinists slaughtered Marxist forces in order to prevent a Marxist revolution - Greece in the post WW2 period where the West crushed Marxist forces and again in 1968 when Marxists played a significant role in overthrowing the generals dictatorship - France in 1968 when DeGaulle scattered because of the possibility of Socialist Revolution - Chile in 1973 when the US organised a coup by army generals to overthrow the Allende government and impose 20+ of vicious military dictatorship (I could add more).

As for Stalininst growth rates Every slave state has great productivity.

But the growth rates were still significantly higher than the 'slave' states that lay outside the Soviet sphere of influence.

There is a reason why socialism, or at least your view of it as produced such glorious failures. It is because that how the inevitable end of socialist ideology. It's inherent flaws are also why it has never developed within other polities organically like capitalism did and does in almost every other concievable system.

[popper]

Being any of the things you mentioned, including a Jew, was also enough to sentence you to death under socialism.

Sorry, Popper, but when and where exactly did Socialists sentence Jews to death?
It is simply childish to try to portray the Nazi party as socialist, if thats what you are doing. The Nazi party rounded up and murdered socialists.

You are obviously not familiar with the Doctor's Plot in the USSR.

[Jolly Red Giant]

There is a reason why socialism, or at least your view of it as produced such glorious failures. It is because that how the inevitable end of socialist ideology. It's inherent flaws are also why it has never developed within other polities organically like capitalism did and does in almost every other concievable system.

And of course capitalism is soooo good that it kills 50million people worldwide every year from famine disease and war.

[Defeated Romanticist]

[quote=Jolly Red Giant]

There is a reason why socialism, or at least your view of it as produced such glorious failures. It is because that how the inevitable end of socialist ideology. It's inherent flaws are also why it has never developed within other polities organically like capitalism did and does in almost every other concievable system.

And of course capitalism is soooo good that it kills 50million people worldwide every year from famine disease and war.[/quote:ctogj6rz]
Bull************************

[Starkadder]

Did anyone go to the Anarchist Bookfair last Saturday? They were selling all sorts
of Left-wing books-mainly anarchist, but also of interest to politicos in general.
They had several books by noted anti-Leninist Marxists, including Rosa Luxemburg,
the Situationists, Maurice Brinton and the "Solidarity" Group, and the Irish
Socialist Network.

It just struck me: William Morris,James Connolly, Jack London and all the other
socialists who passed away before 1917 are non-Leninist (or pre-Leninist,in
the sense they died before Lenin's model of Marxism came into being).

[Starkadder]

[quote=Jolly Red Giant]

There is a reason why socialism, or at least your view of it as produced such glorious failures. It is because that how the inevitable end of socialist ideology. It's inherent flaws are also why it has never developed within other polities organically like capitalism did and does in almost every other concievable system.

And of course capitalism is soooo good that it kills 50million people worldwide every year from famine disease and war.[/quote:15s0y12z]

DR, how exactly does an economic system "develop organically"?
Is it sort of like the Weberian/Marxist view that feudalism
was destined to be succeeded by capitalism?