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  1. #11
    Congalltee Congalltee is offline

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    The U.S. may be formally secular but the Supreme Court have come with a few oddities, a retail sales assistant was discriminated against for wearing a head scarf
    Prisoners could be permitted to grow beards (they can't be that much of a Muslim if they are in jail)
    And of course, the ludicrous decision that a company can have a religious conscience and refuse to ensure their female workers for contraceptives (why such things are in an health insurance policy in the first place, is another story).

    A few years back, the leaving very had to be sat on a Saturday but for Jewish students they could be deferred until the Sunday. Which is daft.
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  2. #12
    stakerwallace stakerwallace is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
    When Ivana appoints herself as dictator for life.

    [ the likelihood that she will be elected to anything outside of Trinners, has already discussed at length ]
    The same goes for Ronan Mullen and NUI panel, I'd imagine
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  3. #13
    Congalltee Congalltee is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShoutingIsLeadership View Post
    God knows
    Do tell us what she says.
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  4. #14
    JamieD JamieD is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Congalltee View Post
    Section 37.1 protects religious organisations from the equality provisions. That will be changed for LGBT teachers, who will now get the protection of the equality laws. Nothing changes for atheists. There are no plans to afford protection to them if their views, statements or actions are deemed by a board of management to undermine the state's ethos of a school.
    Are schools "religious organizations" ?
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  5. #15
    CookieMonster CookieMonster is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Congalltee View Post
    The recent referendum had many silly fears of priests being forced to solemnise gay marriages, Catholic adoption agencies to close, or people being arrested for thought crime. It was all very silly stuff from those who still believe in a God.
    It's crap like this which hastens the adoption of secularisation. It wasn't a case that, for the most part, the religious (generally Catholic but in an increasingly diverse world it would be remiss to limit it to that now, voice making a case for an alternative and compelling viewpoint. It as a fill on dogmatic assault on free thinking people and those of a religious mind. If the reaction to Diarmuid Martin's letter was anything to go by it repelled more than it convinced.

    But when will secularism take off here?
    When will schools, paid for by the State, be religious ethos free? Educating of science rather than instructing religion?
    Given the historic interrelationship between religion and education in Ireland I don't expect this to happen any time soon. Nor do I think it should... for the most part anyway. I went to a denominational school and received both religious and scientific instruction. So long as the curriculum is inclusive and adhered to and no student of other faiths, or none, is disadvantaged I don't see the problem.

    Why is protecting gay teachers seen as necessary but straight atheist teachers can swing?
    Not sure what this refers to?

    Why will the angelus be removed?
    Will it?

    Or not televising mass?
    There is a problem with televising mass?

    Or not bothering to interview an archbishop?
    Depends on what issue he's being interviewed.

    Army chaplains could be non-denominational.
    They could.

    Oaths could be removed.
    They should.

    Concessions to religious dress or holy days could be prohibited to ensure equality.
    I'm not sure to what the Concessions to religious dress refers to?

    Holy days - there's quite a lot of history behind those, and other public holidays. I've no issue with them.

    Churches could pay tax and commercial rates (unless they exclusively do charity).
    Most do.

    The growth in Islam could be stayed,if there is little prospect of it gaining hold here as most people think a religion is a formalised superstition.
    That's patent nonsense.

    Only 37% of students currently believe in God, though I presume a larger number do so of those who don't have a degree.
    ?

    Should those who express a belief in God, be counselled from the aggressive secularism that is coming.
    Ah... so I have wasted my time replying.

    Oh well.
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  6. #16
    JamieD JamieD is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Congalltee View Post
    The U.S. may be formally secular but the Supreme Court have come with a few oddities, a retail sales assistant was discriminated against for wearing a head scarf
    Prisoners could be permitted to grow beards (they can't be that much of a Muslim if they are in jail)
    And of course, the ludicrous decision that a company can have a religious conscience and refuse to ensure their female workers for contraceptives (why such things are in an health insurance policy in the first place, is another story).

    A few years back, the leaving very had to be sat on a Saturday but for Jewish students they could be deferred until the Sunday. Which is daft.
    Don't mistake a secular state for one that lacks religious freedom. Growing a beard can be seen as a religious practice. Also, an employer not wanting to pay for contraception isn't necessary a religious thing. I'm sure in a lot (maybe even most) it is but then that's the relationship and employer and employee, there's only so far the state can go in dictating to those arrangements.

    Not saying I support all the supreme court's decisions, but people do seem to think that America as a secular state should be outlawing a lot of things, when really its just secular because of the limits it has put on lawmakers. Congress cannot make religious laws, but people in the United States as citizens have religious freedoms too.
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  7. #17
    Congalltee Congalltee is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieMonster View Post
    It's crap like this which hastens the adoption of secularisation. It wasn't a case that, for the most part, the religious (generally Catholic but in an increasingly diverse world it would be remiss to limit it to that now, voice making a case for an alternative and compelling viewpoint. It as a fill on dogmatic assault on free thinking people and those of a religious mind. If the reaction to Diarmuid Martin's letter was anything to go by it repelled more than it convinced.


    Given the historic interrelationship between religion and education in Ireland I don't expect this to happen any time soon. Nor do I think it should... for the most part anyway. I went to a denominational school and received both religious and scientific instruction. So long as the curriculum is inclusive and adhered to and no student of other faiths, or none, is disadvantaged I don't see the problem.


    Not sure what this refers to?


    Will it?


    There is a problem with televising mass?


    Depends on what issue he's being interviewed.


    They could.


    They should.


    I'm not sure to what the Concessions to religious dress refers to?

    Holy days - there's quite a lot of history behind those, and other public holidays. I've no issue with them.


    Most do.


    That's patent nonsense.


    ?


    Ah... so I have wasted my time replying.

    Oh well.
    It's not like you put in too much time replying anyway (certainly in comparison to those who have made international comparisons).
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  8. #18
    realistic1 realistic1 is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    As soon as the Labour Party get an overall majority?
    So no hope of Aggressive Secularism taken over
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  9. #19
    Hewson Hewson is offline
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    O
    Quote Originally Posted by Congalltee View Post
    The recent referendum had many silly fears of priests being forced to solemnise gay marriages, Catholic adoption agencies to close, or people being arrested for thought crime. It was all very silly stuff from those who still believe in a God.

    But when will secularism take off here?
    When will schools, paid for by the State, be religious ethos free? Educating of science rather than instructing religion?
    Why is protecting gay teachers seen as necessary now but straight atheist teachers will not be protected?
    When will the angelus be removed? Or not televising mass? Or not bothering to interview an archbishop?
    Army chaplains could be non-denominational. Why aren't they.
    Oaths should be removed.
    Concessions to religious dress or holy days could be prohibited to ensure equality for all.
    Churches could pay tax and commercial rates (unless they exclusively do charity).
    The growth in Islam could be stayed,if there is little prospect of it gaining hold here if most people think a religion is a formalised superstition.
    Only 37% of students currently believe in God (though I presume a larger number of less educated people believe in God).
    This (the words I've highlighted) is just part of the problem you and your ilk have to confront if you ever want to have your agenda (vocation) taken seriously.

    It's an inbuilt, pre-programmed virus in your mental hard drive that corrupts your other programmes to such an extent that you become that which you malign.

    'Less educated people.'

    What a great steaming mound of ill-mannered, ill-thought out, ignorant, uneducated (yep!) horsesh!t. Yet it's typical of the type of mentality that seeks to segregate and stereotype in its quest to seek equality and 'progress.' A hallmark of poor education, or maybe just a plain old lack of understanding of the complexities of human beings and how they view that tiny space they occupy in the universe of existence, from microbes to black holes.

    I have a friend who's a Physics and Chemistry lecturer at one of our principle universities whose spare time at weekends is devoted, largely, to activities centered around both his Church and his belief in God. He's one of the most informed and intelligent men I've ever known (and I've travelled widely) but who has managed to merge the wonders of the natural and scientific world with the certainty that neither can ever provide the kind of certainties that you seem to believe are to be found in the dead-end that is atheism.

    I've lived among 'less educated people' at various stages in life and I can assure you that they are infinitely happier than the gerbils I see running on treadmills in more affluent and 'educated' societies, of which Ireland has become one.
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  10. #20
    Congalltee Congalltee is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewson View Post
    O

    This (the words I've highlighted) is just part of the problem you and your ilk have to confront if you ever want to have your agenda (vocation) taken seriously.

    It's an inbuilt, pre-programmed virus in your mental hard drive that corrupts your other programmes to such an extent that you become that which you malign.

    'Less educated people.'

    What a great steaming mound of ill-mannered, ill-thought out, ignorant, uneducated (yep!) horsesh!t. Yet it's typical of the type of mentality that seeks to segregate and stereotype in its quest to seek equality and 'progress.' A hallmark of poor education, or maybe just a plain old lack of understanding of the complexities of human beings and how they view that tiny space they occupy in the universe of existence, from microbes to black holes.

    I have a friend who's a Physics and Chemistry lecturer at one of our principle universities whose spare time at weekends is devoted, largely, to activities centered around both his Church and his belief in God. He's one of the most informed and intelligent men I've ever known (and I've travelled widely) but who has managed to merge the wonders of the natural and scientific world with the certainty that neither can ever provide the kind of certainties that you seem to believe are to be found in the dead-end that is atheism.

    I've lived among 'less educated people' at various stages in life and I can assure you that they are infinitely happier than the gerbils I see running on treadmills in more affluent and 'educated' societies, of which Ireland has become one.
    That's quite a large chip on your shoulder.
    Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God' - Telegraph
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