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  1. #4681
    Toland Toland is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iarmuid View Post
    Some definitions for scientism



    If you need specific examples ask Sidey or one of the other rabids around these parts what value Philosophy or Theology or the Humanities in general has?

    For your bet and because I'm feeling charitable - "meta".
    Philosophy and the Humanities are two things, and Theology is quite another.
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  2. #4682
    Toland Toland is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    And Christian thought was the single biggest influence on the abolitionists.
    If saying it makes it so. The ideals of the French Revolution and of the Enlightenment had nothing at all to do with it of course, o no, no, no. Couldn't be.

    And the fact that the only really serious efforts to outlaw slavery of all types began to emerge subsequent to both aforementioned modern movements, and that before that time Christian civilization made no serious inroads into the practice (on the contrary), is merely coincidence.

    Of course.
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  3. #4683
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toland View Post
    If saying it makes it so. The ideals of the French Revolution and of the Enlightenment had nothing at all to do with it of course, o no, no, no. Couldn't be.

    And the fact that the only really serious efforts to outlaw slavery of all types began to emerge subsequent to both aforementioned modern movements, and that before that time Christian civilization made no serious inroads into the practice (on the contrary), is merely coincidence.

    Of course.
    And you think the fact that the French Revolution and the period of Enlightenment occurred within the Christian world is just coincidential happenstance?
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  4. #4684
    benroe benroe is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    And Christian thought was the single biggest influence on the abolitionists.
    It was also used by slavers to justify there trade.

    17
    II
    That these decisions are of equal authority in both testaments, and that this
    authority is the essential veracity of God, who is truth itself.
    HI
    That since there can be no prescription against the authority of God, what
    ever is declared in any part of the holy bible to be lawful or illicit, must be
    essentially so in its own nature, however repugnant such declaration may be to
    the current opinions of men during any period of time.
    IV
    That as the supreme lawgiver and judge of man, God is infinitely just and
    wise in all decisions, and is essentially irresponsible for the reasons of his
    conduct in the moral government of the world—so it is culpably audacious in us
    to question the rectitude of any of those decisions—merely because we do not
    apprehend the inscrutable principles of such wisdom and justice.
    V
    That if one, or more decisions of the written word of God, sanction the
    rectitude of any human acquisitions, for instance, the acquisition of a servant by
    inheritance or purchase, whoever believes that the written word of God is verity
    itself, must consequently believe in the absolute rectitude of slave-holding.2
    https://www.kingscollege.net/gbrodie...ore%201830.pdf
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  5. #4685
    Toland Toland is online now
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    As late as 1839, the Vatican (under Gregory XVI) issued a prohibition on enslavement and trading in slaves, but failed to call for the emancipation of people already slaves.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_supremo_apostolatus

    Now at this stage we've moved on almost four centuries from gerhard's initial claim (thank you gerhard, for bringing up the subject and providing the impetus in me to do a little elementary research), and we still haven't found a single clear statement from the Vatican that slavery and the holding of slaves is wrong under all circumstances.
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  6. #4686
    shiel shiel is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    And you think the fact that the French Revolution and the period of Enlightenment occurred within the Christian world is just coincidential happenstance?
    Do you think that liberty, equality and fraternity derives from the ethic of love of neighbour?
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  7. #4687
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiel View Post
    Do you think that liberty, equality and fraternity derives from the ethic of love of neighbour?
    Of course.
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  8. #4688
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toland View Post
    As late as 1839, the Vatican (under Gregory XVI) issued a prohibition on enslavement and trading in slaves, but failed to call for the emancipation of people already slaves.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_supremo_apostolatus

    Now at this stage we've moved on almost four centuries from gerhard's initial claim (thank you gerhard, for bringing up the subject and providing the impetus in me to do a little elementary research), and we still haven't found a single clear statement from the Vatican that slavery and the holding of slaves is wrong under all circumstances.
    I don't believe that holding slaves is wrong under all circumstances.

    Honestly if you think about it wouldn't let us say amster being enslaved to someone such as Rashers even give a meaning and purpose to amster's life that he is totally incapable seemingly of giving it himself?
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  9. #4689
    Toland Toland is online now
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    Pope Leo condemned all forms of slavery, making no distinction between "just" and "unjust" enslavement, in 1890.

    There you are now, gerhard. Well after the institution of slavery had been outlawed in the entire Western world.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathol...#Pope_Leo_XIII
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  10. #4690
    Toland Toland is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    I don't believe that holding slaves is wrong under all circumstances.
    Why doesn't that surprise me?
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