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  1. #81
    eurlex eurlex is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by discentes View Post
    I think it's merely a blog rather than any large work of research. The author's conclusion seemed to be more that the disparity of accents is wider than in other cities and that this is reflective of a polarised society.
    The large city in England I live in has a very distinct local accent but there are large numbers of people who either don't have that accent at all, affecting a generic English middle-class accent with little or no trace of any regional/local accent, or trying to use a 'posh' version of the local accent.

    The same goes for Cork city. I can assure you that the disparity in accents in Dublin has been pretty much replicated in any city I've ever lived in.
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  2. #82
    eurlex eurlex is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by discentes View Post
    Cork too, btw. The second link has a clip of JRM's supraregional accent. Britain has similar with RP, but I can't imagine as scenario in America where two people who grow up in the same area and work in the same area etc., end up with accent's as wildly different as JRM and Cillian Murphy:

    RP (Received Pronunciation) is now only used by a tiny, tiny minority of people. Basically, it's the accent the queen has.

    Middle-class accents in England are pretty similar, but can sometimes still have a distinct regional or local influence.

    The same applies to Scotland where there are distinctive local and regional accents but also a generic Scottish middle-class accent and, very rarely, a Scottish upper-class accent.
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  3. #83
    sakhee sakhee is offline
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    It is an interesting subject alright. On the road I grew up on in Limerick you could easily have 3 or 4 different accents among those of similar age. Mostly the accents will have been worked on, some to sound more educated / richer and some to sound dodgier. A lot just depended on the type of circles people wanted to mix in. Some people would just speak in their normal Limerick-neutral accent as most do most of the time.
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  4. #84
    discentes discentes is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurlex View Post
    The same goes for Cork city. I can assure you that the disparity in accents in Dublin has been pretty much replicated in any city I've ever lived in.
    It certainly doesn't exist in American cities. In Chicago, for example, there's maybe 3 native accents in a city of 3/4 million. 1)Generic black southside accent 2) Regular mid-western/generic American/suburban 3) White born and bred Chicagoan.

    The last one has a huge amount of similarities with an Irish accent btw. Cawt for Caught, refusal to pronounce their ths, even including quirks like having a 'front room' in their houses.

    You'll even hear some Chicagoans say things like "What's fer dinner?"
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  5. #85
    eurlex eurlex is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by discentes View Post
    It certainly doesn't exist in American cities. In Chicago, for example, there's maybe 3 native accents in a city of 3/4 million. 1)Generic black southside accent 2) Regular mid-western/generic American/suburban 3) White born and bred Chicagoan.

    The last one has a huge amount of similarities with an Irish accent btw. Cawt for Caught, refusal to pronounce their ths, even including quirks like having a 'front room' in their houses.
    I've heard there is (or used to be) a Chicago 'Polack' accent (although, like in Ireland, nearly all Eastern Europeans are mistaken for Poles by the locals) spoken by second and sometimes even third generation Chicagoans of Eastern European descent.

    From my limited exposure, it seems that there is a lot less regional and local variation of accents among native English-speakers in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa etc, compared to Ireland and Britain. I presume this is something to do with the fact that the accents of those countries have been influenced by a blend of Irish, British and have developed over a much shorter time period.

    I don't refuse to pronounce my ths, I just find that sound really hard and unnatural (for me) to make.

    If I find myself in a situation where sounding them properly is necessary, I have to make a conscious effort to shape my mouth to produce the sound.
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  6. #86
    discentes discentes is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurlex View Post
    I've heard there is (or used to be) a Chicago 'Polack' accent (although, like in Ireland, nearly all Eastern Europeans are mistaken for Poles by the locals) spoken by second and sometimes even third generation Chicagoans of Eastern European descent.
    Second largest Polish population in the world outside Warsaw, so I'd imagine there was/is some lingustic difference between them and the Irish -Chicagoans, but it was sufficently subtle that I never picked up on it. There's a fair bit of marriage and mixing between the Polacks and Micks at this stage anyway!
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  7. #87
    eurlex eurlex is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAMAI View Post
    I'm what I term a "Northside Culchie" from just outside Cork, not a million miles from where JRM grew up and I can tell you that's not his original accent.
    I'd say his original accent isn't a million miles from his mother's accent.
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  8. #88
    CookieMonster CookieMonster is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by gatsbygirl20 View Post
    No, we can't possibly make such a judgement based on accent alone (neither indeed does being "middle class" necessarily mean that one is "stupid" or"shallow" )

    The South Dubln Dort-ish accent with its tortured vowels is not a very attractive accent, granted, but many of us might have the same reaction to other accents......but like with our reactions to skin colour or race, we must try not to be biased
    I think you have missed the boat. Skin colour and race are inherent traits, unless you're Michael Jackson, and while there is a strong social aspect to accents (Take the pitmatic accent as an example. A very definite coloration between grandparents, parents and children and a strong identifiable basis for speaking how they do) where as the Dort accent is largely without that and developed affectation completely without that base. As I said earlier, the older generation of those in South Dublin, the parents of the KPMG Girl and so on don't have that stupid accent. Children have adopted it among themselves.

    People are born in a certain place...they pick up the accent they hear around them...or if they move into the area they eventually start to develop the local accent through exposure to it, or through a natural desire to fit in...natural adaptive behaviour
    Absolutely, but I very much doubt anyone to the degree it happens in D4 and indeed doubt anyone would adopt what is akin to a speech impediment!

    Unfortunately accent can often betray class, background, address....so it has become freighted with a whole bunch of other resonances...resentment, begrudgery, envy, affectation, social striving......
    There is no class basis for it. You have kids from Galway (G4) and so on replicating it, even children from working class areas.

    But we must be careful not to use it as a convenient method of attacking middle-class South Dubliners---now that so many other groups are out of bounds
    But, as I say, it's not solely a manifestation of middle-class South Dubliners.

    [qoute]Believe it or not, people with Dort-ish accents can be sincere ,kind and law-abiding citizens sometimes[/QUOTE]
    Indeed, but they've still elected to adopt a pretty stupid accent loike.
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  9. #89
    gatsbygirl20 gatsbygirl20 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by locke View Post
    You're lucky. I went down the speaking more slowly and pronouncing every syllable route as I was working through English in a country where it wasn't the first language.

    Came back for Christmas about 9 months later and was in the pub with one of my friends who asked the question "Why are you speaking to me like I'm a retard?"!
    Accent becomes a habit.

    If you change your accent you're regarded as "affected"

    But if you've been living in the US for 20 years and have picked up traces of the accent, you are expected to change it and speak in what now feels to you like an "effected" all-Irish accent once you are home visiting with your old pals in the pub, even if that is no longer your natural accent

    People who say "I hate a put-on, pretend accent" still demand that their old pals who have been living abroad all their lives "put on" an all-Irish accent and pretend that they speak like that all the time, once they come home

    You can hear that with the actor Gabriel Byrne.

    Because of living in New York, marrying an American, having to speak with an American accent in movies ,his "natural" accent--the one he's most comfortable with--is by now highly Americanised

    But when he's back home being interviewed on RTE you can hear him struggle to make sure his accent is "Dub" enough to deflect accusations that he's affected, that he's forgotten his Drimnagh roots, that he's putting on an accent

    So he tries to speak fluent Drimnagh.

    Luckily he's an actor and can fake it. Affecting to be non-affected must be exhausting all the same...
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  10. #90
    discentes discentes is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by gatsbygirl20 View Post
    But when he's back home being interviewed on RTE you can hear him struggle to make sure his accent is "Dub" enough to deflect accusations that he's affected, that he's forgotten his Drimnagh roots, that he's putting on an accent

    So he tries to speak fluent Drimnagh.

    Luckily he's an actor and can fake it. Affecting to be non-affected must be exhausting all the same...
    Either that or it's just code-switching. I had no problem when I was living in the States between the Irish accent I used for work/with my American girlfriend/roomates etc., and the Irish accent I used with other ex-pats. Obviously switching lexicon with such ease is a tad harder (for really common words like cell hone, trash can etc. I never switched back and used them even wehn I was back visiting Ireland), but it can also be done
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