'black people are less intelligent than white people'.....

[Justin]

[quote="Defeated Romanticistracism
Have you ever considered that it is the group identity that is the problem, is the reason for wars and genocides and not the solution. Nietzsche wrote of the death of God. Substitute Society for God and you will liberate the individual. There is no Society and the sooner we realise and accept that the better. People in the west liberated themselves from the crutch of religon now the should liberate their minds from the crutch of the many, the society, the group. It isn't easy to be a self-identified individual but if you value Truth you must accept the truth.[/quote]

Except that the'individual' is a socially constructed concept as well..

[905]

[quote=Defeated Romanticist]

I comment on this issue is a big fat so what?

There are smart black people, there are smart white people,
There are stupid black people, there are stupid white people,

Why should someone be regarded as different because others with the same skin colour are thick/smart?

Racism like most of the other ills in our society is derived from an attempt to group people irregardless of their individuality. When we start to address people as individuals with the respect that entails, the percieved abuses that certain individuals suffer will dissapate but not until.

Attempts at both irradicating differences and accentuating them between groups of people are, have always been, and always will be, rationalised racism.

This will get me in a lot of trouble but here goes.
Group identity is one thing most authorities, at the moment, ascribe to genetics. The practical benefits are obvious. People have created identities out of almost anything: religion, skin colour, ethnicity, favourite soccor club, parish boundaries, their own names (see these strange get-togethers of people with Jones for a surname etc.). Individuals are simply not on the genetic cards, they're the people living in caves on the outskirts of society and not contributing genetically.
I don't know what you mean by rationalised racism, racism is the belief that people cab be grouped according to their physical (ie. gentic) structure. Other group identities are created around all sorts of things. That's not saying they're not as destructive.

Have you ever considered that it is the group identity that is the problem, is the reason for wars and genocides and not the solution. Nietzsche wrote of the death of God. Substitute Society for God and you will liberate the individual. There is no Society and the sooner we realise and accept that the better. People in the west liberated themselves from the crutch of religon now the should liberate their minds from the crutch of the many, the society, the group. It isn't easy to be a self-identified individual but if you value Truth you must accept the truth.[/quote:854tomlp]
I should have clarified that point, group identity (providing it's true) is the basis for all organised conflict, genocide etc. Absolutely. It's also the basis of civilisation, health care, learning etc. A human population without society could not function for long. There would be no hospitals, no structure whatsoever. Maggie Thatcher claimed that society didn't exist, and then went back to her position in society making differences that could not be done without the apparatus of the government.
All this is academic because humans are supposedly genetically obliged to form societies. It would take a lot of counter-evolutionary breeding to do away with. The notion that western societies have shrugged off religion is an interesting one because that is another behaviour which is supposedly genetic, but on the whole nationalism has taken the place of religion. One's as bad as the other.

[MarD]

timoleague "This is all a load of auld b*****x. The facts are that average population IQ testing shows that all races are roughly equal, but that blacks do slightly worse than whites who in turn do slightly worse than Asians and particularly of Jews of Eastern Europe(Ashkenazim) descent."

farnaby "Scientist advocating layman use of adecdotal evidence to prove racial differences regarding an elusive, partially-constructed human property... Alert Richard Dawkins - adherence to objective scientific method obviously isn't as widespread as he suggests."

This is the sort of thing that Richard Dawkins would have no problem with. Apparently the IQ tests show a difference. For a dunderhead like Dawkins this is where his rational scientific stupidity gets exposed. He brooks no truth other that scientific rationalism therefore down his cul-de-sac he must accept the numbers. It's blinkered egos like Dawkins that encourage this sort of quasi-scientific gibberish from someone who should know better.

[scotusone]

"I should have clarified that point, group identity (providing it's true) is the basis for all organised conflict, genocide etc. Absolutely. It's also the basis of civilisation, health care, learning etc. A human population without society could not function for long. There would be no hospitals, no structure whatsoever. Maggie Thatcher claimed that society didn't exist, and then went back to her position in society making differences that could not be done without the apparatus of the government.
All this is academic because humans are supposedly genetically obliged to form societies. It would take a lot of counter-evolutionary breeding to do away with. The notion that western societies have shrugged off religion is an interesting one because that is another behaviour which is supposedly genetic, but on the whole nationalism has taken the place of religion. Ine's as bad as the other."[/quote]



when the former prime minister made that comment it was in a very specific context. when it comes to funding spending that money comes from taxation and when we tax there is no such thing a society only the individual who has his money appropriated by government.
she was making the point that intra societal wealth transfers or redistributions no matter how we dress them up are ultimately personal .money is taken from one citizen and given to another .

[The Hard Left]

Could I respectfully suggest that a MOD or David change the title to something like.

[size=7]Nobel scientist in 'whites more intelligent' race row[/size]

The current one is a little bit Evening Herald.

[905]

The Maggie thing was a little out of line. But the rest of it I stand by (till proved wrong).

[Akrasia]

Have you ever considered that it is the group identity that is the problem, is the reason for wars and genocides and not the solution. Nietzsche wrote of the death of God. Substitute Society for God and you will liberate the individual. There is no Society and the sooner we realise and accept that the better. People in the west liberated themselves from the crutch of religon now the should liberate their minds from the crutch of the many, the society, the group. It isn't easy to be a self-identified individual but if you value Truth you must accept the truth.

There is no society?

It is clear from your previous posts on here that you are an individualist capitalist, but I never thought you would come on here and argue that we should all become sociopaths
but are you sincerely trying to argue that the shared human experience is the cause of all of the problems in our world and not the selfish individualist greed of a few power crazed individuals acting in a sociopathic way?

Lets make it clear what you said, you did not argue for one single common identity, a global community, You argued for no community at all.

[scotusone]

[quote=Defeated Romanticist]

I comment on this issue is a big fat so what?

There are smart black people, there are smart white people,
There are stupid black people, there are stupid white people,

Why should someone be regarded as different because others with the same skin colour are thick/smart?

Racism like most of the other ills in our society is derived from an attempt to group people irregardless of their individuality. When we start to address people as individuals with the respect that entails, the percieved abuses that certain individuals suffer will dissapate but not until.

Attempts at both irradicating differences and accentuating them between groups of people are, have always been, and always will be, rationalised racism.

This will get me in a lot of trouble but here goes.
Group identity is one thing most authorities, at the moment, ascribe to genetics. The practical benefits are obvious. People have created identities out of almost anything: religion, skin colour, ethnicity, favourite soccor club, parish boundaries, their own names (see these strange get-togethers of people with Jones for a surname etc.). Individuals are simply not on the genetic cards, they're the people living in caves on the outskirts of society and not contributing genetically.
I don't know what you mean by rationalised racism, racism is the belief that people cab be grouped according to their physical (ie. gentic) structure. Other group identities are created around all sorts of things. That's not saying they're not as destructive.

Have you ever considered that it is the group identity that is the problem, is the reason for wars and genocides and not the solution. Nietzsche wrote of the death of God. Substitute Society for God and you will liberate the individual. There is no Society and the sooner we realise and accept that the better. People in the west liberated themselves from the crutch of religon now the should liberate their minds from the crutch of the many, the society, the group. It isn't easy to be a self-identified individual but if you value Truth you must accept the truth.[/quote:3q66xxyp]



are you superman?

[Defeated Romanticist]

[quote=905]

I comment on this issue is a big fat so what?

There are smart black people, there are smart white people,
There are stupid black people, there are stupid white people,

Why should someone be regarded as different because others with the same skin colour are thick/smart?

Racism like most of the other ills in our society is derived from an attempt to group people irregardless of their individuality. When we start to address people as individuals with the respect that entails, the percieved abuses that certain individuals suffer will dissapate but not until.

Attempts at both irradicating differences and accentuating them between groups of people are, have always been, and always will be, rationalised racism.

This will get me in a lot of trouble but here goes.
Group identity is one thing most authorities, at the moment, ascribe to genetics. The practical benefits are obvious. People have created identities out of almost anything: religion, skin colour, ethnicity, favourite soccor club, parish boundaries, their own names (see these strange get-togethers of people with Jones for a surname etc.). Individuals are simply not on the genetic cards, they're the people living in caves on the outskirts of society and not contributing genetically.
I don't know what you mean by rationalised racism, racism is the belief that people cab be grouped according to their physical (ie. gentic) structure. Other group identities are created around all sorts of things. That's not saying they're not as destructive.

Have you ever considered that it is the group identity that is the problem, is the reason for wars and genocides and not the solution. Nietzsche wrote of the death of God. Substitute Society for God and you will liberate the individual. There is no Society and the sooner we realise and accept that the better. People in the west liberated themselves from the crutch of religon now the should liberate their minds from the crutch of the many, the society, the group. It isn't easy to be a self-identified individual but if you value Truth you must accept the truth.

I should have clarified that point, group identity (providing it's true) is the basis for all organised conflict, genocide etc. Absolutely. It's also the basis of civilisation, health care, learning etc. A human population without society could not function for long. There would be no hospitals, no structure whatsoever. Maggie Thatcher claimed that society didn't exist, and then went back to her position in society making differences that could not be done without the apparatus of the government.
All this is academic because humans are supposedly genetically obliged to form societies. It would take a lot of counter-evolutionary breeding to do away with. The notion that western societies have shrugged off religion is an interesting one because that is another behaviour which is supposedly genetic, but on the whole nationalism has taken the place of religion. One's as bad as the other.[/quote:2z81twz4]
Society, as a noun, does not exist, society as a verb does. There is a marked difference, society the verb is the innumerable relations between individuals, it does not exist as an entity. There is a difference between society and the state. The state is the affirmative construct of individuals who wish to live according to a certain set of determined concepts.
There has never been a war between two democracies, where two separate states were created by the will of the individuals who compose that state. Therefore I stand by my assertion that it is this artificial construct of the group that causes conflicts between groups (generally).

[scotusone]

if society is (= / is equivalent to) "relations"( between individuals) ; how is it not a noun?

innumerable is an adjective not an adverb.