Irish Citizenship for people of just ancestral background??

[Watcher]

This is a very difficult and thorny issue. While I agree in principal to the decendants entitlement to claim Irish citizenry, we need to thread carefully. I know the Argentinian Irish are more "Irish than the Irish themselves" but where do we stop. What is the situation in other countries? Not that we should replicate any other countries policies, unless they are intelligent and would work here, but it would be good to have a benchmark given that Ireland is so new to immigration. I do believe that there should be a level of accomodation for a number of generations given that the historical situations in Ireland drove so many countrymen and women to foriegn shores coupled with the fact that Ireland has only recently been an attractive place to come to and come back to, we should accomodate people with a real claim, such as those in Argentina.

[Supersid]

Your opinion is irrelevant specifically because the people have voted it down twice in recent referenda. You'd be hard pushed to find a less validated opinion in this country, in fact. No other issue has been twice clarified by large public majorities in referenda in recent times.

For something so clarfied, you are still mistaken. What people voted for is a lot more liberal wrt children born to foreign nationals than I propose. At the moment only ONE parent has to be resident for THREE years for the child to be entitled to Irish citzenship. My opinion would put resrictions beyond that (very low) threshold, and has never been put to the people.

[drbob1972]

not the most politically correct response but i believe we should be selective with whom we issue Irish passports and citizenship to beyond what's currently deemed valid by DFA, etc. perhaps something along the line of the visa system used by Australia and other countries, where people have a set of skills or can benefit Ireland and willing to reside and work here (as opposed to just a back door to getting a EU passport) then they could be eligible for residence leading to citizenship.

just because your (great)great-grandfather was born in Ireland does not give you any right to citizenship / passport IMHO

So you are effectively dismissing the Irish diaspora then? Nice.

yes i am as we need to focus on the needs of those in Ireland now and in the future and make it the best place we can, in my opinion people whose Irish ancestor's left here 100 - 150 + years ago and are 4th, 5th or 6th generation born in UK, US, wherever are not Irish but are British, American, Argentina, etc

[JCSkinner]

Your opinion is irrelevant specifically because the people have voted it down twice in recent referenda. You'd be hard pushed to find a less validated opinion in this country, in fact. No other issue has been twice clarified by large public majorities in referenda in recent times.

For something so clarfied, you are still mistaken. What people voted for is a lot more liberal wrt children born to foreign nationals than I propose. At the moment only ONE parent has to be resident for THREE years for the child to be entitled to Irish citzenship. My opinion would put resrictions beyond that (very low) threshold, and has never been put to the people.

Please start a campaign, preferably one involving you chained to the front of Leinster House. I pass by most days and would love the opportunity to throw vegetables at you and laugh at the lack of support you would receive for this ill-thought nonsense.

[Supersid]

I totally agree. Many millions left irish shores out of necessity. That these decendents have kept Irish culture alive after so long, shows a loyalty that you would be hard to find in Ireland itself. Citizenship should be available.

If these people feel any connection with this country they have been able to come here.

Hundreds of thousands of people with no previous connection to this county have moved here and, found jobs and are contributing on a weekly basis with their hard work and taxes.

[JCSkinner]

This is a very difficult and thorny issue. While I agree in principal to the decendants entitlement to claim Irish citizenry, we need to thread carefully. I know the Argentinian Irish are more "Irish than the Irish themselves" but where do we stop. What is the situation in other countries? Not that we should replicate any other countries policies, unless they are intelligent and would work here, but it would be good to have a benchmark given that Ireland is so new to immigration. I do believe that there should be a level of accomodation for a number of generations given that the historical situations in Ireland drove so many countrymen and women to foriegn shores coupled with the fact that Ireland has only recently been an attractive place to come to and come back to, we should accomodate people with a real claim, such as those in Argentina.

My own position is that we should immediately introduce a points-based immigration programme to counter the levels of large-scale immigration of ill-educated people to Ireland, and should reconsider our open doors policy in relation to Eastern European accession states, given the vastly disproportionate numbers who have come to this small island.
With a breathing space thus created, we could easily accommodate those of Irish descent who have been thus far prevented by DFA ignorance from their birthright.

[Aindriu]

not the most politically correct response but i believe we should be selective with whom we issue Irish passports and citizenship to beyond what's currently deemed valid by DFA, etc. perhaps something along the line of the visa system used by Australia and other countries, where people have a set of skills or can benefit Ireland and willing to reside and work here (as opposed to just a back door to getting a EU passport) then they could be eligible for residence leading to citizenship.

just because your (great)great-grandfather was born in Ireland does not give you any right to citizenship / passport IMHO

So you are effectively dismissing the Irish diaspora then? Nice.

yes i am as we need to focus on the needs of those in Ireland now and in the future and make it the best place we can, in my opinion people whose Irish ancestor's left here 100 - 150 + years ago and are 4th, 5th or 6th generation born in UK, US, wherever are not Irish but are British, American, Argentina, etc

So the child of an emigrant who left in say 1980 is't Irish in your view? Try telling them that - my guess is the response will end with 'off'.

[Armchair Activist]

Ya mean there might be an Irish Maradona out there ? Sign the Argies up quick !

Scaloni (Argentinean international) is an Espanic evolvement of Scallan or Scallon, which derives from the south east (Waterford, Wexford, Kilkenny, Carlow is where most of the Irish migrants to Argentina came from)

[seanad voter]

That's interesting, AA, but I was just thinking I can't look at Tevez without thinking of Christy Moore.

[drbob1972]

not the most politically correct response but i believe we should be selective with whom we issue Irish passports and citizenship to beyond what's currently deemed valid by DFA, etc. perhaps something along the line of the visa system used by Australia and other countries, where people have a set of skills or can benefit Ireland and willing to reside and work here (as opposed to just a back door to getting a EU passport) then they could be eligible for residence leading to citizenship.

just because your (great)great-grandfather was born in Ireland does not give you any right to citizenship / passport IMHO

So you are effectively dismissing the Irish diaspora then? Nice.

yes i am as we need to focus on the needs of those in Ireland now and in the future and make it the best place we can, in my opinion people whose Irish ancestor's left here 100 - 150 + years ago and are 4th, 5th or 6th generation born in UK, US, wherever are not Irish but are British, American, Argentina, etc

So the child of an emigrant who left in say 1980 is't Irish in your view? Try telling them that - my guess is the response will end with 'off'.

ah FFS would you read what i said and not what you want to, i said anyone whom is beyond DFA criteria which is up to 3rd generation, ie if ones grandparents were born in Ireland, one is entitled to apply for Irish citizenship,

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=267#ent

you need to get into 4th generation before it becomes a problem, so i really don't think the kids or even grandkids of the person whom left Ireland in 1980 have much to worry them should to want Irish citizenship

if someone left Ireland in 1980, managed to have kids, grandkids and even great grandchildren in those 27 years i think they have bigger issues then Irish citizenship