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  1. #251
    Mitsui2 Mitsui2 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    Even Catholics would be entitled to describe those opinions as mad. There tends to be a lack of appreciation for how they were influenced by bad Aristotelian biology, the long, long history of misogyny (from pre-Christian times and still only coming towards its end), as well as the prejudiced nature of some of the thinkers themselves. That imperfect humans are imperfect is not something that will come as a shock to Catholics believing in the doctrine of original sin.
    Touché, sir!
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  2. #252
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline
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    There is an interesting article on the so-called Catholic Taliban, or rad-trads (radical traditionalists), in the American Conservative.
    What Is Pope Francis Saying to the Right? | The American Conservative

    It paints a controversial impression of rad-trads. It speaks about many of them

    - supporting right wing dictators in South America who engaged in murder, yet being morally opposed to having altar girls.
    - being hard core pro-life, but when pushed suggesting abortion was all the fault of Jews.
    - being holocaust deniers.

    A conservative himself, the author finds himself understanding some of Pope Francis's criticisms of the Catholic right and unease with it.

    I read a lot of blogs, including some by rad-trads. His criticism rings bells with what I see. Some of the comments on the blogs by rad-trads are hilariously off the wall. The only person they seem to hate more than Pope Francis is Barack Obama. Antisemitism is rife in their blogs, as is Islamophobia. Their latest hero is Putin over his anti-gay laws. They detest liberals in the Church. (One site, Rorate Caeli, got all worked up over the a sermon preached in a church in Limerick that they thought heretical, by the Redemptorists. They barely hide their detestation of the late Pope John Paul II, who they think was an extreme liberal. Some of them thought Pope Benedict XVI too liberal and too tolerant.

    As for Pope Francis, they are still in shock at his views and in shock at his toleration of 'sin' and failure to uphold the analysis they believe is his duty to uphold.
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  3. #253
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline
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    Glanced at a few rad-trad blogs tonight. They are so surreal they are funny.

    At this stage the rad-trads (radical traditionalists - big into the Latin Mass, convinced Vatican II was a disaster, most Catholics aren't really Catholic, liberals are evil, Jews at evil, Muslims are evil, Gays are evil, Protestants are evil, etc) are almost having a collective mental meltdown over Pope Francis. They practically began spewing hatred and steaming out of their ears at any mention of him.

    The mainstream media are now also carrying stories at what is nearly panic in traditionalist circles about Francis.

    For example, one site wrote:

    "Could Pope Francis even BE ONE OF THE ENEMIES of the Church? He could be; he might not be! The enemies of the Church are certainly delighted with his election. We wait, we watch, we pray! Not all of the enemies of the Church have a tail and a pitchfork! Some have natural virtues—sometimes deliberately faked. They look after the poor, they are charitable to the highest degree, they are humble, they are witty, and they have attractive personalities. He could be one, he may not be one! Who knows? God knows—and all we can do, to avoid ripping up the wheat with the cockle, is to wait, to watch and to pray!"

    Among the accusations were

    "here is a connection between the Pope Francis and the masonic orientated Rotary Club. Pope Francis, while he was still Archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, was named an honorary member of the Rotary Club in Buenos Aires and received the 2005 Silver Laurel Award of the club as "Person of the Year"."

    The idea that the Rotary Club is some masonic conspiracy is comic. But the hardcore are so desperate to explain Pope Francis they even resort to nutty conspiracy theories, as in

    "With Benedict XVI supporting a “One-World” monetary and financial system, is Pope Francis the man for the job in leading the Church into a One World Order. He certainly has general world unification ideas and a vocabulary to go with them. There have been significant political abdications and changes in leadership recently. We know there are a good number of Freemasons among the cardinals and bishops in Rome. Is this abdication of Benedict XVI part of their plan for the One World Order? Was he ‘in the way’? Is Pope Francis a part of their plan, or God’s plan?"

    http://www.ourladysresistance.org/li...e-francis.html

    The head of the traditionalist Catholic Society of St. Pius X made it clear that they are in “very scary times” but we are not helpless. He noted the “the situation of the Church is a real disaster. And the present Pope is making it 10,000 times worse.” “In the beginning of the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI, I said, ‘the crisis in the Church will continue, but the Pope is trying to put on the brakes.’ It’s as if to say, the Church will continue to fall, but with a parachute. And with the beginning of this [Pope Francis] pontificate, I say, ‘he cuts the strings, and he put a [downward] rocket’.”


    Bishop Fellay Lets Pope Francis Have It | The American Conservative

    Other traditionalist sites complaining about Francis include
    REMNANT E-EDITION | E-EDITIO

    Pope Francis and Tradition | None | Catholic Family News

    Pope Francis and Traditional Catholicism | Traditional Catholic Priest

    Musings of a Pertinacious Papist: What makes Pope popular (like Obama?), worries some conservative Catholics

    Examples of media reportage of this controversy include

    Conservative Catholics question Pope Francis’s approach - The Washington Post

    Not everyone loves Pope Francis: Conservative Catholics voice concern over 'revolutionary' message - U.S. News

    Right-wing complainers about Pope Francis need to understand who's healthy | National Catholic Reporter

    More Catholic than the Pope - By Michael D

    Pope Francis is unsettling

    Pope Francis on same-sex marriage - latimes.com

    Trad Catholic Freakout Time | The American Conservative

    Bad News For Conservative Catholics | The American Conservative

    Conservative Catholics Confront Francis’s Message | The American Conservative

    Conservatives 'disturbed' by pope's remarks – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

    A Coming American Schism Over Pope Francis? - The Daily Beast
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  4. #254
    HYENA HYENA is online now

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    Maybe cardinal Brady and Gerry Adams could share a cell, both consistantly place the survival of their organisation above any commitment to the truth or to human dignity, which is worse, a murderer of the innocent or a clerical rapist, both it seems required protection and it was provided.
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  5. #255
    Cellach Cellach is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    Glanced at a few rad-trad blogs tonight. They are so surreal they are funny.

    At this stage the rad-trads (radical traditionalists - big into the Latin Mass, convinced Vatican II was a disaster, most Catholics aren't really Catholic, liberals are evil, Jews at evil, Muslims are evil, Gays are evil, Protestants are evil, etc) are almost having a collective mental meltdown over Pope Francis. They practically began spewing hatred and steaming out of their ears at any mention of him.

    The mainstream media are now also carrying stories at what is nearly panic in traditionalist circles about Francis.

    For example, one site wrote:

    "Could Pope Francis even BE ONE OF THE ENEMIES of the Church? He could be; he might not be! The enemies of the Church are certainly delighted with his election. We wait, we watch, we pray! Not all of the enemies of the Church have a tail and a pitchfork! Some have natural virtues—sometimes deliberately faked. They look after the poor, they are charitable to the highest degree, they are humble, they are witty, and they have attractive personalities. He could be one, he may not be one! Who knows? God knows—and all we can do, to avoid ripping up the wheat with the cockle, is to wait, to watch and to pray!"

    Among the accusations were

    "here is a connection between the Pope Francis and the masonic orientated Rotary Club. Pope Francis, while he was still Archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, was named an honorary member of the Rotary Club in Buenos Aires and received the 2005 Silver Laurel Award of the club as "Person of the Year"."

    The idea that the Rotary Club is some masonic conspiracy is comic. But the hardcore are so desperate to explain Pope Francis they even resort to nutty conspiracy theories, as in

    "With Benedict XVI supporting a “One-World” monetary and financial system, is Pope Francis the man for the job in leading the Church into a One World Order. He certainly has general world unification ideas and a vocabulary to go with them. There have been significant political abdications and changes in leadership recently. We know there are a good number of Freemasons among the cardinals and bishops in Rome. Is this abdication of Benedict XVI part of their plan for the One World Order? Was he ‘in the way’? Is Pope Francis a part of their plan, or God’s plan?"

    Liberalism of Pope Francis -     OUR LADY'S RESISTANCE                              Saint Marys, Kansas

    The head of the traditionalist Catholic Society of St. Pius X made it clear that they are in “very scary times” but we are not helpless. He noted the “the situation of the Church is a real disaster. And the present Pope is making it 10,000 times worse.” “In the beginning of the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI, I said, ‘the crisis in the Church will continue, but the Pope is trying to put on the brakes.’ It’s as if to say, the Church will continue to fall, but with a parachute. And with the beginning of this [Pope Francis] pontificate, I say, ‘he cuts the strings, and he put a [downward] rocket’.”


    Bishop Fellay Lets Pope Francis Have It | The American Conservative

    Other traditionalist sites complaining about Francis include
    REMNANT E-EDITION | E-EDITIO

    Pope Francis and Tradition | None | Catholic Family News

    Pope Francis and Traditional Catholicism | Traditional Catholic Priest

    Musings of a Pertinacious Papist: What makes Pope popular (like Obama?), worries some conservative Catholics

    Examples of media reportage of this controversy include

    Conservative Catholics question Pope Francis’s approach - The Washington Post

    Not everyone loves Pope Francis: Conservative Catholics voice concern over 'revolutionary' message - U.S. News

    Right-wing complainers about Pope Francis need to understand who's healthy | National Catholic Reporter

    More Catholic than the Pope - By Michael D

    Pope Francis is unsettling

    Pope Francis on same-sex marriage - latimes.com

    Trad Catholic Freakout Time | The American Conservative

    Bad News For Conservative Catholics | The American Conservative

    Conservative Catholics Confront Francis’s Message | The American Conservative

    Conservatives 'disturbed' by pope's remarks – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

    A Coming American Schism Over Pope Francis? - The Daily Beast
    Did you see the Pixies in Rome gave the Nazi lad a funeral?
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  6. #256
    Will Shake Spear Will Shake Spear is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    Glanced at a few rad-trad blogs tonight. They are so surreal they are funny.

    At this stage the rad-trads (radical traditionalists - big into the Latin Mass, convinced Vatican II was a disaster, most Catholics aren't really Catholic, liberals are evil, Jews at evil, Muslims are evil, Gays are evil, Protestants are evil, etc) are almost having a collective mental meltdown over Pope Francis. They practically began spewing hatred and steaming out of their ears at any mention of him.

    The mainstream media are now also carrying stories at what is nearly panic in traditionalist circles about Francis.

    For example, one site wrote:

    "Could Pope Francis even BE ONE OF THE ENEMIES of the Church? He could be; he might not be! The enemies of the Church are certainly delighted with his election. We wait, we watch, we pray! Not all of the enemies of the Church have a tail and a pitchfork! Some have natural virtues—sometimes deliberately faked. They look after the poor, they are charitable to the highest degree, they are humble, they are witty, and they have attractive personalities. He could be one, he may not be one! Who knows? God knows—and all we can do, to avoid ripping up the wheat with the cockle, is to wait, to watch and to pray!"

    Among the accusations were

    "here is a connection between the Pope Francis and the masonic orientated Rotary Club. Pope Francis, while he was still Archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, was named an honorary member of the Rotary Club in Buenos Aires and received the 2005 Silver Laurel Award of the club as "Person of the Year"."

    The idea that the Rotary Club is some masonic conspiracy is comic. But the hardcore are so desperate to explain Pope Francis they even resort to nutty conspiracy theories, as in

    "With Benedict XVI supporting a “One-World” monetary and financial system, is Pope Francis the man for the job in leading the Church into a One World Order. He certainly has general world unification ideas and a vocabulary to go with them. There have been significant political abdications and changes in leadership recently. We know there are a good number of Freemasons among the cardinals and bishops in Rome. Is this abdication of Benedict XVI part of their plan for the One World Order? Was he ‘in the way’? Is Pope Francis a part of their plan, or God’s plan?"

    Liberalism of Pope Francis -     OUR LADY'S RESISTANCE                              Saint Marys, Kansas

    The head of the traditionalist Catholic Society of St. Pius X made it clear that they are in “very scary times” but we are not helpless. He noted the “the situation of the Church is a real disaster. And the present Pope is making it 10,000 times worse.” “In the beginning of the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI, I said, ‘the crisis in the Church will continue, but the Pope is trying to put on the brakes.’ It’s as if to say, the Church will continue to fall, but with a parachute. And with the beginning of this [Pope Francis] pontificate, I say, ‘he cuts the strings, and he put a [downward] rocket’.”


    Bishop Fellay Lets Pope Francis Have It | The American Conservative

    Other traditionalist sites complaining about Francis include
    REMNANT E-EDITION | E-EDITIO

    Pope Francis and Tradition | None | Catholic Family News

    Pope Francis and Traditional Catholicism | Traditional Catholic Priest

    Musings of a Pertinacious Papist: What makes Pope popular (like Obama?), worries some conservative Catholics

    Examples of media reportage of this controversy include

    Conservative Catholics question Pope Francis’s approach - The Washington Post

    Not everyone loves Pope Francis: Conservative Catholics voice concern over 'revolutionary' message - U.S. News

    Right-wing complainers about Pope Francis need to understand who's healthy | National Catholic Reporter

    More Catholic than the Pope - By Michael D

    Pope Francis is unsettling

    Pope Francis on same-sex marriage - latimes.com

    Trad Catholic Freakout Time | The American Conservative

    Bad News For Conservative Catholics | The American Conservative

    Conservative Catholics Confront Francis’s Message | The American Conservative

    Conservatives 'disturbed' by pope's remarks – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

    A Coming American Schism Over Pope Francis? - The Daily Beast
    Just the type the Field Mouse parody are based one, thankfully a tiny minority in America, a bit like judging all baptists based on the phelps family. If you posted links to mainstream catholic opinion, a hundred posts could not fill it, but I guess that would not suit the agenda.
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  7. #257
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Shake Spear View Post
    Just the type the Field Mouse parody are based one, thankfully a tiny minority in America, a bit like judging all baptists based on the phelps family. If you posted links to mainstream catholic opinion, a hundred posts could not fill it, but I guess that would not suit the agenda.
    I never said the rad trads were anything other than a small minority who shout, scream and stamp their feet a lot. That is the point. But comparing them to the Phelps lot is nonsense. There aren't enough Phelps supporters to fill a bus. There are many hundreds of thousands of rad trads. They are a tiny minority, but they are there and do a lot of shouting and screaming. They also have quite a few friends among the clergy and hierarchy internationally, and run their own seminaries. They are important enough for Benedict XVI to have put a lot of effort into trying to heal the split with them, and for the current pope to comment on them. They also have quite a presence in conservative media circles. So they are noticeable. In Ireland, many of the senior figures of Youth Defence/Cóir/Mother and Child and the other cover names it uses belong to the rad trads. Historically, for some reason rad trads tended to be associated with extreme republicanism in Ireland - the like of McGeough, people linked to RSF, etc.
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  8. #258
    Will Shake Spear Will Shake Spear is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    I never said the rad trads were anything other than a small minority who shout, scream and stamp their feet a lot. That is the point. But comparing them to the Phelps lot is nonsense. There aren't enough Phelps supporters to fill a bus. There are many hundreds of thousands of rad trads. They are a tiny minority, but they are there and do a lot of shouting and screaming. They also have quite a few friends among the clergy and hierarchy internationally, and run their own seminaries. They are important enough for Benedict XVI to have put a lot of effort into trying to heal the split with them, and for the current pope to comment on them. They also have quite a presence in conservative media circles. So they are noticeable. In Ireland, many of the senior figures of Youth Defence/Cóir/Mother and Child and the other cover names it uses belong to the rad trads. Historically, for some reason rad trads tended to be associated with extreme republicanism in Ireland - the like of McGeough, people linked to RSF, etc.
    In proportion to the numbers of Catholics and Baptists in the world the rad trads are exactly as numerous as churches like the phelps. But hey spin away, just don't expect anyone other than the gullible or prejudiced to go along with you. What's next, keep reporting on only gay people who acted like Jeffrey Dahmer ? You can do that with any group in the world, it says more about you, than them. How about a bit of balance and report about the work and aid provided by hundreds of thousands of Catholic charities ? Nah, didn't think so.
    Last edited by Will Shake Spear; 17th October 2013 at 01:34 AM.
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  9. #259
    Bannatyne123 Bannatyne123 is offline
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    dp
    Last edited by Bannatyne123; 4th December 2013 at 03:11 AM.
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  10. #260
    The Field Marshal The Field Marshal is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentmajority View Post
    "Genetic Guilt", is a vile concept,
    Its also a valid concept dislike it as you do.

    [Your dad probably had sticky out aeroplane ears that were passed onto you}

    Quote Originally Posted by Silentmajority View Post
    people who advocate such policies are not fit for civil discourse and require hospitalization or internment.
    Naturally you wish to stifle all true opinion and proven scientific research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silentmajority View Post
    This is the crap the Nazis's started about elements of German society stabbing the undefeated army in the back, it ended in Dachau.
    The Nazis said nothing about genetics merely the correct historical fact that Germany, having agreed an honourable armistice [not a surrender] was treated appallingly and viciously both by opponents and let down terribly by those who agreed the Paris peace conference terms and the Versailles treaty

    It was these dreadful agreements that paved the way for the rise of Adolf Hitler .

    But hey why would you let a little thing like historical facts get in the way of your emotive outbursts:roll;
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