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  1. #141
    stopdoingstuff stopdoingstuff is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancl2000 View Post
    Well the scientific approach is testable hypothesis. So science doesnt have an opinion on whether god exists or not unless you can formulate gods existence as a testable hypothesis.
    Good. Time to stop pretending science disproves it then.
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  2. #142
    Socratus O' Pericles Socratus O' Pericles is online now
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  3. #143
    Drogheda445 Drogheda445 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    No, I wasn't taught by the Jesuits.

    What the mythology may indicate is that throughout human history there has consistently been a yearning for the spiritual and the divine.
    Spot on. All religions, IMO, are inevitably a human attempt to understand their origins and understanding the Universe in which they live. Before we had any plausible scientific understanding of natural phenomena, we found them so ordered and intricate that we felt they had to have been controlled by some sort of intelligence or force, which would inevitably be human-like. We can't blame them for this, as they didn't know any better. You can see this throughout ancient mythology, such as the Greeks using their divine figure "Helios" riding on his chariot across the sky to explain the movement of the Sun, Quetzalcoatl in Aztec mythology, or Rah in Egyptian mythology. Even early Irish mythology was polytheistic to such an extent that there were gods for nearly everything in nature: trees, rivers, the sky etc.

    It is also, as you say, a search for divinity or spirituality. Ancient peoples, like us, had difficulty dealing with and understanding aspects of life such as birth and death, and attempted to understand this through mythology.

    Religion, while it has its many faults and violent interpretations, is a brave attempt at attempting to understand ourselves and our surroundings and an example of our curiosity, and while I don't see much practical evidence for its beliefs and teachings in this day and age, it is a historically and culturally important in human nature.
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  4. #144
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drogheda445 View Post
    Ancient peoples, like us, had difficulty dealing with and understanding aspects of life such as birth and death ...
    I think we still have great difficulty in truly understanding these aspects of our life.

    Also, we've learned through science that the universe may be infinite and we seem to be all alone here!
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  5. #145
    dancl2000 dancl2000 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by stopdoingstuff View Post
    Good. Time to stop pretending science disproves it then.
    i never pretended it does. However, I dont believe in everything I dont know to be untrue, this was clear in the rest of the post which you neglected to quote
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  6. #146
    wickalah wickalah is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    It may not be that easy an explanation and it's an increasingly difficult position to defend in light of scientific progress and the rise of secularism.
    If you are talking about the "god-as-patterns-in-nature" idea, it is becoming far easier to "defend" in light of scientific progress.

    Science has explained many of the events and patterns that have, in the past, been attributed to gods. As scientific knowledge increases in volume, the realm of the gods decreases to match.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    In any event, the belief in God isn't a completely baseless or arbitrary means of explaining the universe.

    The belief relates directly to our humanity, to our morality and to how we experience the world.
    The anthropomorphisation of nature is a far more obvious explanation really.
    We made beings out of the forces of nature, the stars, the seasons, the animals, the plants, the sea etc. etc. Now that we know that these things are not gods we have moved our anthropomorphisation to more nebulous and intangible concepts, "humanity", "morality", "spirituality" etc etc.
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  7. #147
    Drogheda445 Drogheda445 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopdoingstuff View Post
    Good. Time to stop pretending science disproves it then.
    It doesn't prove it either. In science if you assert something to be true it has to be proven in the first place, you can't rely on lack of knowledge to essentially be plugged with the idea of God. To quote Richard Feynman: "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong."
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  8. #148
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickalah View Post
    If you are talking about the "god-as-patterns-in-nature" idea, it is becoming far easier to "defend" in light of scientific progress.

    Science has explained many of the events and patterns that have, in the past, been attributed to gods. As scientific knowledge increases in volume, the realm of the gods decreases to match.



    The anthropomorphisation of nature is a far more obvious explanation really.
    We made beings out of the forces of nature, the stars, the seasons, the animals, the plants, the sea etc. etc. Now that we know that these things are not gods we have moved our anthropomorphisation to more nebulous and intangible concepts, "humanity", "morality" etc etc.
    Do you believe we are "moral" creatures? I think most people accept that we are.
    Where does our morality come from? Is it merely a feature of our evolution or social conditioning?

    These are difficult questions.

    Sorry, I have to get back to work now but I'll call back in later.
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  9. #149
    stopdoingstuff stopdoingstuff is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancl2000 View Post
    i never pretended it does. However, I dont believe in everything I dont know to be untrue, this was clear in the rest of the post which you neglected to quote
    The rest of the post is totally standard.
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  10. #150
    gerhard dengler gerhard dengler is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drogheda445 View Post
    It doesn't prove it either. In science if you assert something to be true it has to be proven in the first place, you can't rely on lack of knowledge to essentially be plugged with the idea of God. To quote Richard Feynman: "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong."
    But isn't that the essence of faith? Faith being something that cannot be "provable"?

    Does faith need to be provable?

    (I'm all for science and Man learning more and more about the environment that has been created throughout the Cosmos, but I also believe in God).
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