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  1. #8981
    Nitrogen Nitrogen is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    Now take the logic behind your first sentence and apply it to Mohammed.
    ?
    Don't get you.

    It was you who focused attention on the divine incarnation-virgin birth narrative. But now that you mention it, that is actually an example of the sort of esoteric doctrine I had in mind, which I reckon means little or nothing to your average devotee. You are surely not suggesting that there is a cohort of paedophiles out there, who prey on young teenage girls and do so because they are emulating the Christian deity as portrayed by the doctrine of the incarnation. I know paedophiles are notorious for coming up with all sorts of self justifying rationalisations for their behaviour, but that one is new to me.
    Put another way, your initial jibe about god raping his own mother, is so abstract and nonsensical that it is hardly going to inspire emulation.

    Now as for Mohammed. Nothing abstract or esoteric about his exploits. No stretch of the imagination required there to see how he might "inspire" impressionable youths.
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  2. #8982
    Nitrogen Nitrogen is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    But my point in this context is that approachability does not equate to importance.
    That depends on what you mean by "importance". I think you may be confusing status, an abstract concept, with influence which is more pragmatic.

    For instance, it is often said that kids are influenced by their peers more than by their parents/teachers/authority figures. This may not always be the case, but it illustrates that approachable individuals often exert far greater influence than do those of higher status.
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  3. #8983
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogen View Post
    ?
    Don't get you.

    It was you who focused attention on the divine incarnation-virgin birth narrative. But now that you mention it, that is actually an example of the sort of esoteric doctrine I had in mind, which I reckon means little or nothing to your average devotee. You are surely not suggesting that there is a cohort of paedophiles out there, who prey on young teenage girls and do so because they are emulating the Christian deity as portrayed by the doctrine of the incarnation. I know paedophiles are notorious for coming up with all sorts of self justifying rationalisations for their behaviour, but that one is new to me.
    Put another way, your initial jibe about god raping his own mother, is so abstract and nonsensical that it is hardly going to inspire emulation.

    Now as for Mohammed. Nothing abstract or esoteric about his exploits. No stretch of the imagination required there to see how he might "inspire" impressionable youths.
    "You could put that spin on it, I suppose, but I'm pretty sure that most Marian devotees don't see it that way, which is what matters."

    Do you think that most Muslims regard Mohammed as a child rapist?
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  4. #8984
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogen View Post
    That depends on what you mean by "importance". I think you may be confusing status, an abstract concept, with influence which is more pragmatic.

    For instance, it is often said that kids are influenced by their peers more than by their parents/teachers/authority figures. This may not always be the case, but it illustrates that approachable individuals often exert far greater influence than do those of higher status.
    I'm not confusing the two. My point is, and has always been about, status.
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  5. #8985
    Analyzer Analyzer is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    "You could put that spin on it, I suppose, but I'm pretty sure that most Marian devotees don't see it that way, which is what matters."

    Do you think that most Muslims regard Mohammed as a child rapist?
    Well let's suppose even one asked the question - how do long more do you think he would given to live ?

    If a belief system does not allow introspection of it's founder then how good is it ?

    For example, look at what happened in response to Salman Rushdie for examining some verses in the holy book in his book The Satanic Verses. He had to hide for fear of his life. And he still needs security.
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  6. #8986
    Nitrogen Nitrogen is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    "You could put that spin on it, I suppose, but I'm pretty sure that most Marian devotees don't see it that way, which is what matters."

    Do you think that most Muslims regard Mohammed as a child rapist?
    He is said to have taken a child bride when he was no spring chicken himself. I'll let you define that what ever way you wish.

    I would note that many Islamic cultures seem to have a practice of forced marriage of quite young girls. On the face of it, such practice seems to be endorsed by Mohammed's antics. Was the same thing in western societies in the old days? Probably, but if so it is hard to see how it was explicitly inspired by Jesus.

    I'm at a loss as to what dubious cultural practice might have been inspired by the doctrine of divine incarnation and the virgin birth, for the simple reason that nobody has a clue what it means.
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  7. #8987
    Nitrogen Nitrogen is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    I'm not confusing the two. My point is, and has always been about, status.
    Indeed,

    Whereas propensity to exert influence is what really matters.
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  8. #8988
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogen View Post
    Indeed,

    Whereas propensity to exert influence is what really matters.
    An omnipotent being must have a pretty strong propensity to exert influence.
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  9. #8989
    LawAndOrdure LawAndOrdure is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    An omnipotent being must have a pretty strong propensity to exert influence.
    ...And the person of Mohammed was his sole voicebox having ruled that the Jewish and Christian traditions were close but not the real truth. Allah and Mohammed's example are inseparable in Islam, just as Jesus is inseparable from Christianity. It is only in hierarchical terms that Allah is more important than Mohammed, certainly not in influence.
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  10. #8990
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawAndOrdure View Post
    ...And the person of Mohammed was his sole voicebox having ruled that the Jewish and Christian traditions were close but not the real truth. Allah and Mohammed's example are inseparable in Islam, just as Jesus is inseparable from Christianity. It is only in hierarchical terms that Allah is more important than Mohammed, certainly not in influence.
    It really is like you guys are trying to outdo one another in your displays of ignorance.
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