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  1. #7991
    Happycamping Happycamping is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsui2 View Post
    Nope - he tends to miss the point even then.
    The whole lot of them do.
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  2. #7992
    Niall996 Niall996 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogen View Post
    You seem to be expressing a religious version of the fallacy that Islam is just an eastern version of Christianity.

    The atheist version of this fallacy holds that all religions are equivalent (and by extension atheism alone is the one true world view), and that give the muslims a few hundred years then they too will settle down to a humane civilisation, like we have in the west.

    Your religious version seems to entail a sneaking regard for Islamists. (Never mind the beheadings, and them having a paedophile as a role model, their women folk sure do know how to dress modestly) .

    Both betray a profound ignorance of what the phenomenon of religion actually is, and how Judeo-Christianity and the western civilisation it has spawned differs from Islam.


    The natural, anthropological, tendency of human societies is towards sacrificial polytheism.
    This sort of keeps the peace, can easily accommodate different gods etc, but also tends to result in chaotic, superstitious and inconsistent world views which are not very compatible with what we would now call science...oh and they also tend to rely on human sacrifice.

    Enter monotheism. This tends to constrain human sacrifice (sacrificial victims can no longer be deified, as there is just one God), facilitates the notion of a single cosmic order (essential for science) but also tends towards intolerance, as if there is just one God, and he is "our" God, then those other guys, worshiping some other God must be wrong.
    Note that monotheism and atheism share very similar characteristics in this regard, with polytheism being the outlier.

    The old testament consists of the Jews working through the consequences of monotheistic intolerance, and working out ways of curtailing it. This process culminated in Christianity, a monotheistic system with teachings of pacifism, tolerance and inclusivity embedded within it. Western atheism, for all it's claims to the contrary, is a very similar system.

    Islam on the other hand is a garbled version on monotheism. Unlike Christianity and western atheism, it is not built on a long cultural heritage drawn from centuries of grappling with the pitfalls of monotheism, but instead seems to consist of bits and pieces picked up from Jewish and Christian travelers, by some Arabian warlord around the desert campfires.

    That is why I regard Islam as having monotheistic intolerance but without the brakes and as such is a dangerous, dangerous ideology.

    Don't be fooled by the superficial similarities with Judeo-Christianity. The ideology (not the people) could hardly be more different
    Atheism is not a religion.
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  3. #7993
    razorblade razorblade is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by cunnyfunt View Post
    https://www.independent.ie/videos/wo...7692.html#play

    "The man is described as Asian, approximately 20-years-old, of slim build with black hair and black rimmed glasses"

    Asian which could mean Chinese or Japanese, i somehow doubt it though, i think it's obvious the exact kind of Asian it's referring to.
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  4. #7994
    Nitrogen Nitrogen is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall996 View Post
    Atheism is not a religion.
    I don't think I said that it was.

    But lets not split hairs.

    The ideology of modern western atheism, especially in it's humanist format, has much more in common with the ideology of Christianity, than either have with the ideology of Islam. The reason being that both western traditions recognise the intolerance trap inherent in both monotheism and atheism respectively, and both attempt to address this, albeit in quite different ways obviously, and with varying degrees of success.

    Islam (being the product of a single mutation rather than a gradual evolution) fails to recognise the intolerance trap at all, and thus has no integral mechanism to counter it.
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  5. #7995
    Niall996 Niall996 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogen View Post
    I don't think I said that it was.

    But lets not split hairs.

    The ideology of modern western atheism, especially in it's humanist format, has much more in common with the ideology of Christianity, than either have with the ideology of Islam. The reason being that both western traditions recognise the intolerance trap inherent in both monotheism and atheism respectively, and both attempt to address this, albeit in quite different ways obviously, and with varying degrees of success.

    Islam (being the product of a single mutation rather than a gradual evolution) fails to recognise the intolerance trap at all, and thus has no integral mechanism to counter it.
    Atheism is not an ideology and there's no intolerance trap in Atheism.
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  6. #7996
    Nitrogen Nitrogen is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall996 View Post
    Atheism is not an ideology and there's no intolerance trap in Atheism.
    I'm not going to get into a pedantic argument with you over how to classify atheism, that's for another day, another thread.

    Lets just acknowledge for now that monotheistic systems are much more prone to intolerance than are polytheistic ones.

    This makes monotheisms inherently dangerous;

    Judeo-CHristianity worked that out centuries ago and evolved some safeguards (sermon on the mount etc), whereas Islam lacks these.
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  7. #7997
    Trampas Trampas is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happycamping View Post
    You need things kept really simple to get any grasp at all, don't you?
    Any grasp is way better than your position, i.e. none at all. How many islamo-outrages will it take before self-satisfied dolts like you decide to wake up ?
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  8. #7998
    Happycamping Happycamping is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trampas View Post
    Any grasp is way better than your position, i.e. none at all. How many islamo-outrages will it take before self-satisfied dolts like you decide to wake up ?
    Don't worry, I'm awake.
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  9. #7999
    stopdoingstuff stopdoingstuff is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall996 View Post
    Atheism is not an ideology and there's no intolerance trap in Atheism.
    Yes there is. Intolerance is a feature of humanity itself and as such works its way into most religions or ideologies at some point. Check out Comminist (and atheist) Russia or China.
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  10. #8000
    Texal Tom Texal Tom is offline
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    Was doing my teacher training in Ucc a long time ago and there was a Muslim roadshow set up in one of the open areas near the library. I remember asking one of the spokesmen why Islam permits men t have 4 wives. His answer was very telling - 'because men engage in wars and die and there wouldn't be enough men for the women to marry! I thought wtf! At the time I thought that war use be some ingrained into the religious system.. In Th next breath he informed me that Islam means peace... And I thought - yeah and walked away
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