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  1. #121
    Happytolearn Happytolearn is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamLee View Post
    White supremacists (I'm assuming youre talking about hillbilly types) do not pose a worldwide threat, nor do they carry out acts of mass destruction on civilian targets, nor are they they inspiration for regimes intent on wiping other countries off the map with nuclear weapons. You are not even remotely comparing like with like. Secondly being white is not akin to a radical version of religion that one can disassociate oneself from. Pick a better one....

    Incidentally there is no shortage of "white people" taking these loons to task. If they ever did become a force of any kind I have no doubt that they would be beaten down without much hesitation. Dont forget we had our own terrorists here (a much better comparison) and most of us made a pretty good job of rejecting their evil.
    I sometimes wonder (as a gay man) if I'm a turkey voting for christmas by defending islamic immigration. Nobody can deny there is a homophobic (+ sexist, regressive and violent) undercurrent to this religon and that it's a belief system that urgently requires evolution to survive. The thing is - as none of us know what is going to happen - it's as likely that this small percentage of the population will integrate over the coming generations. Time and time again (perhaps with the exception of Saudi Arabia) - increased standard of living involves a movement from the church/temple/mosque to the park, pub or shopping centre. Scores of muslim students are availing of western education - and it's education that is ultimately the fundamentalist's biggest enemy.
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  2. #122
    WilliamLee WilliamLee is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happytolearn View Post
    I sometimes wonder (as a gay man) if I'm a turkey voting for christmas by defending islamic immigration. Nobody can deny there is a homophobic (+ sexist, regressive and violent) undercurrent to this religon and that it's a belief system that urgently requires evolution to survive. The thing is - as none of us know what is going to happen - it's as likely that this small percentage of the population will integrate over the coming generations. Time and time again (perhaps with the exception of Saudi Arabia) - increased standard of living involves a movement from the church/temple/mosque to the park, pub or shopping centre. Scores of muslim students are availing of western education - and it's education that is ultimately the fundamentalist's the biggest enemy.
    Not so Happytolearn. Both of the Boston Bombers were well educated in exclusive American schools and colleges. It did not help to moderate their indoctrination. Many Muslim despots were also educated in Western schools and Universities. Authorities in the US are fast coming to realize just how many radical Islamists are embedded in their universities and communities.

    What you are proposing is simply not realistic and we do not have time for it. If we have learned one thing from the Tsarnaev incident is that being soft and PC is not seen as some kind of act of kindness but a weakness to be exploited by these radicals. And the silence from moderate Muslims is deafening...
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  3. #123
    benroe benroe is offline
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    "The mainstream doctrine of islam contains this notion of martyrdom and jihad an imperative to convert subjugate or kill infidels..."


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  4. #124
    Happytolearn Happytolearn is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamLee View Post
    Not so Happytolearn. Both of the Boston Bombers were well educated in exclusive American schools and colleges. It did not help to moderate their indoctrination. Many Muslim despots were also educated in Western schools and Universities. Authorities in the US are fast coming to realize just how many radical Islamists are embedded in their universities and communities.

    What you are proposing is simply not realistic and we do not have time for it. If we have learned one thing from the Tsarnaev incident is that being soft and PC is not seen as some kind of act of kindness but a weakness to be exploited by these radicals. And the silence from moderate Muslims is deafening...
    The more we persecute the more we become like the radicals. Abu Qatada should, in my view, be dealt with to the letter of our law. Every right of appeal should be afforded to him in line with the European court of human rights. It is these freedoms that define who we are and where we are going. The radicals love it when the west regresses - special rendition and Guantanamo played into the hands of those who reject freedom and western ideals. I disagree with you when you say we don't have time. Education is key - yes these bombers were well educated in the west but 2 people cannot sully the millions who are integrating. Our future (whether you like it or not) is intertwined with islam.
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  5. #125
    TheWexfordInn TheWexfordInn is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamLee View Post
    Not so Happytolearn. Both of the Boston Bombers were well educated in exclusive American schools and colleges. It did not help to moderate their indoctrination. Many Muslim despots were also educated in Western schools and Universities. Authorities in the US are fast coming to realize just how many radical Islamists are embedded in their universities and communities.
    The two Muslims behind the 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack were well educated as well, British born Bilal Abdullah was a doctor and Kafeel Ahmed was an engineer who was studying for a PhD at the time of the attack. The doctor one of the duo was also found guilty of planting the London car bombs the day before the Glasgow attack.
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  6. #126
    Bonsai Experiment Bonsai Experiment is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamLee View Post
    White supremacists (I'm assuming youre talking about hillbilly types) do not pose a worldwide threat, nor do they carry out acts of mass destruction on civilian targets, nor are they they inspiration for regimes intent on wiping other countries off the map with nuclear weapons. You are not even remotely comparing like with like. Secondly being white is not akin to a radical version of religion that one can disassociate oneself from. Pick a better one....
    You're like a school girl on steroids , will you ever calm down ffs.
    You are demanding that moderate muslims should take responsibility for radical muslims and their ideology before you will accept any potential legitimacy in the petitions of muslim spokespeople. So I' am saying that you should take responsibility for white supremacism , you being a moderate white and them being radical whites before you can be taken seriously. What you just did , is to shake off hundreds of years of white supremacism as being irrelevant. That's exactly what seems to get you so pissed off in relation to muslim spokespeople who try to say that these radicals are a minority and should tint your view of Islam.
    You are saying that white supremacists are irrelevant and shouldn't tint anyone's view of white people. Sound a bit hypocritical?
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  7. #127
    Happytolearn Happytolearn is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by benroe View Post
    "The mainstream doctrine of islam contains this notion of martyrdom and jihad an imperative to convert subjugate or kill infidels..."


    I liked the diamond in the garden analogy. I agree with him on a number of things - especially that. I disagree that the doctrine to kill or convert is 'mainstream'. My mate Asif is just like me.
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  8. #128
    Happytolearn Happytolearn is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWexfordInn View Post
    The two Muslims behind the 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack were well educated as well, British born Bilal Abdullah was a doctor and Kafeel Ahmed was an engineer who was studying for a PhD at the time of the attack. The doctor one of the duo was also found guilty of planting the London car bombs the day before the Glasgow attack.
    How many British born bombers/would be bombers have there been (educated or otherwise) in the last decade in Britain? As a percentage of moderate, integrated British born muslims I would say it's a tiny tiny fraction - perhaps as small as the percentage of Irish who used violent means during the troubles.
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  9. #129
    WilliamLee WilliamLee is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonsai Experiment View Post
    You're like a school girl on steroids , will you ever calm down ffs.
    You are demanding that moderate muslims should take responsibility for radical muslims and their ideology before you will accept any potential legitimacy in the petitions of muslim spokespeople. So I' am saying that you should take responsibility for white supremacism , you being a moderate white and them being radical whites before you can be taken seriously. What you just did , is to shake off hundreds of years of white supremacism as being irrelevant. That's exactly what seems to get you so pissed off in relation to muslim spokespeople who try to say that these radicals are a minority and should tint your view of Islam.
    You are saying that white supremacists are irrelevant and shouldn't tint anyone's view of white people. Sound a bit hypocritical?
    Jaysus, talk about putting words in people's mouths. Dude, I hardly said a fraction of what you claim I said. Can't be doing with that...
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  10. #130
    Bonsai Experiment Bonsai Experiment is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamLee View Post
    ........ but until moderate Muslims start to make real noises they must take a fair portion of blame for what these terrorists do.
    This is what you said. You want muslims to make account i.e. explain themselves or take the blame, for the radicals who are also muslims... simply because they are muslims too.
    so i want you to take responsibility for the radical whites i.e. explain them or yourself or take the blame for their ideology, its not that difficult to grasp the consequences of extending your philosophy to other people and groups.
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