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  1. #51
    The Salmon of Knowledge The Salmon of Knowledge is offline
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    The largest action of civil disobedience and mass political action is taking place across the state as we speak.

    Hundreds of thousands of citizens are currently involved in a mass boycott of the household charge.

    If anything mass political action seems to be on the rise again.
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  2. #52
    milestogo milestogo is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary_queen_of_the_gael View Post
    In the case of Ireland, a major reason would be the hijacking of radicalism by those who now lead the Labour Party and Sinn Fein.
    Co-option is generally the best form of imperialism. Make the tent wider. FF could explain it well.
    1. The Good Friday Agreement.
    2.Adams and his cliques' control of Sinn Fein.
    3.War weariness.
    4.The gut feeling that the Thirty Year War was for nothing.
    5.Republicans know that they were betrayed by their leaders.
    6.The overwhelming power of the EU.
    7.The de industrialisation of Ireland.
    8.Loss of pride and confidence because of the collapse of the South.
    9.The scandals within the Church.
    10.Haughey/Aherne/Cowan.
    11.The Trade Union Leadership.
    12.The Labour Party.

    Fine Gael are inconsequential......anyone who can count up to ten knew/knows,what to expect.
    Resistance to the status quo and leadership has traditionally come from Republican/patriotic/socialists.
    Republicanism is in disarray so there is no leadership or activists on the ground.
    That combined that with cultural and economic conditions explains much of the apparent apathy.
    We are a broken people led by an accidental government,there will be resistance but it will take time and will not come from the ULA.

    Just a few thoughts.
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  3. #53
    edg edg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideysGhost View Post
    Eh? Ye wha?
    In your "predictions" you say that the people would vote to keep the PDs in power. Have a look.
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  4. #54
    Dame_Enda Dame_Enda is offline
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    Because real power has moved out of Ireland to Brussels.
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  5. #55
    Lain2016 Lain2016 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by milestogo View Post
    1. The Good Friday Agreement.
    2.Adams and his cliques' control of Sinn Fein.
    3.War weariness.
    4.The gut feeling that the Thirty Year War was for nothing.
    5.Republicans know that they were betrayed by their leaders.
    6.The overwhelming power of the EU.
    7.The de industrialisation of Ireland.
    8.Loss of pride and confidence because of the collapse of the South.
    9.The scandals within the Church.
    10.Haughey/Aherne/Cowan.
    11.The Trade Union Leadership.
    12.The Labour Party.

    Fine Gael are inconsequential......anyone who can count up to ten knew/knows,what to expect.
    Resistance to the status quo and leadership has traditionally come from Republican/patriotic/socialists.
    Republicanism is in disarray so there is no leadership or activists on the ground.
    That combined that with cultural and economic conditions explains much of the apparent apathy.
    We are a broken people led by an accidental government,there will be resistance but it will take time and will not come from the ULA.

    Just a few thoughts.
    I dont think you are giving SF any credit.

    How do you think the 30 year war was going to end?

    Do you imagine it was going to result in the brits loading up and sailing away?

    Why blame the republicans in isolation, have the unionists covered themselves in glory in their 20th century strategies, have the brits, have the FS gov?

    IMO SF are providing real opposition which will bear fruit.
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  6. #56
    NewDawn1 NewDawn1 is offline

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    We are owened by private bankers. It is too much for us to comprehend, so instead small and next to pointless 'im not paying this tax' or whatever will continue until people see the root cause of the problem.
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  7. #57
    lies lies is offline
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    bah - the main reson mass political activism has "declined" is:

    it's seen as ineffective

    mostly because:

    it's actually ineffective
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  8. #58
    kvran kvran is offline

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    Blaming mass media, internet, video games and television just reeks of old people I fear growing old to the point that new technology and cultural trends are seen as the downfall of western society.

    While I think the notion can be contested as we have rose tinted views of the past. Big issues still mobilise big crowds. I think of the massive anti war march on the eve of the invasion of Iraq in London and around the world. Occupy was a significant movement and while we can be cyanical about it all movements have their elitism and internal contradictions history just glosses over it.

    If we are to believe in MASS activism is in decline. I think these reasons are more likely -

    post material politics - in developed nations the big issues of inequality and equal opportunities are perceived as having being tackled and while we still have poverty it's not the sort of mass poverty that Europe experienced in the 19th century. People are now most interested in post material issues particularly environmentalism but also stuff like animal protection and third world development. There was moral watershed reached in 80s/90s where open expressions of sexism or homophobia will have a politician discredited and shunned. While issues remain social liberals have the momentum and the remain issues are nuanced and require complex solutions.

    Post ideological politics - the great ideological debates of the 20th century are over and parties have moved to the centre. There are no big vision any more to mobilise people towards a world that could be. It can also be called TINA (there is no alternative). Very few want a revolution any more as there is no alternative to capitalism and the reality that many of the big issues of the day are complex and nuanced, require compromise and complex solutions, something mass activism cant deliver.

    I suppose cynicism plays a role in this, we just know too much for our own good. Parties are no longer whole ways of life or teams, party membership has been falling as voters interests become more complicated and fractured. People no longer commit to a party unless they are already in a family that has a history of supporting that party or they genuinely believe in all the policies and vision of that party.

    That said, while I believe in a decline in every day political activism (probably rightly so since modern political parties are such failures), big issues such as war and austerity can still mobilise a cross section of society.
    Last edited by kvran; 17th October 2012 at 01:16 PM.
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  9. #59
    edg edg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaramouche View Post
    It's because the southern Irish are a beaten people. Weak, shoneens, captippers, who would dance a jig or sing an aul song for a few coppers from their massa.

    The southern Irish need a massa now that the English no longer directly rule the 26 county Free State - so now they captip to a new massa, the eu.

    That's the default position of the southern Irish male - begging and on their knees. No self-respect, no pride. No Patriotism.
    In all fairness, you could say the same about the lower and middle class of any country.

    I mean Scotland is only asking for independence now.

    We kicked the English out of southern Ireland in 1922... And not by doing a jig for a few coppers.
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  10. #60
    SideysGhost SideysGhost is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by edg View Post
    In your "predictions" you say that the people would vote to keep the PDs in power. Have a look.
    Eh? There's nothing in the single transferable post or any of the posts linked from it which says anything of the kind! And the only context in which I can ever imagine ever saying that voters would keep the PDs in power would the in the context of "Irish people are demented enough to..."

    Where is the prediction you speak of? Linky or yer talking shyte!
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