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  1. #81
    Roll_On Roll_On is online now

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    I don't really understand the whole issue to be honest. As far as I can see, both sides have gotten their collective knickers in a twist over nothing.

    1) Why would a transgender person want to change their birth cert? some say it's to make it easier to apply for passports, drivers licenses etc. But I don't really buy that, because all you have to do is include your gender recognition cert (proposed already) in with your application. You might say they shouldn't have to do that because of privacy. But to be honest, either way you're sending all your personal details to some civil servant in the passport office who you've never met and probably never will, so why give a toss what they think??

    2) The antis need to get a life. It's not your birth cert.

    I'd just like to know why it's important to get a different birth cert.
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  2. #82
    CptSternn CptSternn is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roll_On View Post
    I don't really understand the whole issue to be honest.

    Why would a transgender person want to change their birth cert? some say it's to make it easier to apply for passports, drivers licenses etc. But I don't really buy that, because all you have to do is include your gender recognition cert (proposed already) in with your application.
    Wait until you get to America, looking like a man but have female checked on your passport, or vise versa. Expect to be questioned for sometime.

    Better yet wait until you apply for a job and show ID. See how fast employers react to the news you were formally a member of the opposite sex.

    Or next time you are heading out to a nightclub wait until the bounce sees your ID and notices you are listed as a different sex than it says on the ID. Don't think they will take issue with it?

    This law does not change these problems nor even address the institutionalised discrimination which occurs often in this country, but it does help stop these problems. More importantly the highest court in Europe AND in Ireland both agree this should have happened over a decade ago so it's not like anyone is arguing for something new or different, just that the laws as defined are carried out as they have been decreed.

    Lots of scenarios here, all of which end with discrimination and bullying which could be avoided if the government lived up to enforcing it's own laws.
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  3. #83
    Roll_On Roll_On is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptSternn View Post
    Wait until you get to America, looking like a man but have female checked on your passport, or vise versa. Expect to be questioned for sometime.

    Better yet wait until you apply for a job and show ID. See how fast employers react to the news you were formally a member of the opposite sex.

    Or next time you are heading out to a nightclub wait until the bounce sees your ID and notices you are listed as a different sex than it says on the ID. Don't think they will take issue with it?

    This law does not change these problems nor even address the institutionalised discrimination which occurs often in this country, but it does help stop these problems. More importantly the highest court in Europe AND in Ireland both agree this should have happened over a decade ago so it's not like anyone is arguing for something new or different, just that the laws as defined are carried out as they have been decreed.

    Lots of scenarios here, all of which end with discrimination and bullying which could be avoided if the government lived up to enforcing it's own laws.
    All those issues are resolved by a gender recognition cert, just send that off with your passport and driver's license application and your new gender is then recognised on your ID. From that point on, people who see your passport and other ID, need not know that your sex has changed. Simples.
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  4. #84
    Socratus O' Pericles Socratus O' Pericles is online now
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    The Chick fil A debate is interesting they are having an Appreciation Day-600,000 people on facebook are backing Huckabee's support for their owners position on gay marriage i.e. he is very much against it. Here is one view

    Never have I been quite as concerned for the state of this country as I am now, after Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day. Let me be clear, I HAVE NOT boycotted Chick-fil-A because of company President Dan Cathy’s comments on marriage equality. I may not personally agree with him, but that’s the beauty of America; we have the right to express our opinions freely. I HAVE boycotted Chick-fil-A because Dan Cathy has used profits from Chick-fil-A to donate five million dollars to organizations that advocate criminalizing gay people, denying gay people the ability to serve in the military, denying gay people the right to marry, depicting gay people as pedophiles, making it okay to fire gay people, denying gay parents access to their own children, denying children of gay couples the protection that comes from having both parents recognized as having responsibility for that child, treating gay people as broken, in need of repair, and depraved, along with a host of other oppressive initiatives. Yesterday, thousands of Americans packed into Chick-fil-A’s across the nation, many seeking only delicious chicken, but many others went to show their support of the anti-gay organizations and initiatives that Dan Cathy supports. I worry for what that says about us as a nation. I fail to understand how denying anyone their human right to marry, to serve their country, to be a parent, or simply to exist free of discrimination can be justified by ANY means, especially in a country founded on the principle of the separation of church and state. Just because one group does not approve of another’s lifestyle does not grant them the right to deny the other their rights as equal citizens, and I will defend this view as long as I live.
    Chick-fil-A supporters turn out across the country - The Washington Post
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  5. #85
    blokesbloke blokesbloke is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskrimador View Post
    How come Roy and Haley Cropper are married?
    Because they "live" in the UK. The UK recognises transgender people as being of the sex they say they are after surgery - they also get an altered birth certificate.

    In fact the storyline showed them wanting to get married but being unable to as Hayley was still considered a man under UK law. I don't watch it now but I distinctly remember Roy proposing to Hayley and her having to tell him she couldn't accept and why. He said they'd wait until the law was changed, and she said he might be waiting a very long time.

    In fact, the Coronation Street character of Hayley did a lot for transgender rights in the UK and I think that storyline is a big part of why the law was changed, as Hayley was a much-loved character and really brought the issue to mainstream attention. According to Wiki, Roy popped the question in 1999, but by 2005 it was legal for them to get married.

    Under UK law, Hayley would be legally considered a woman and therefore can marry Roy.

    Find out more about the UK 2004 Gender Recognition Act

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_...ition_Act_2004
    Last edited by blokesbloke; 2nd August 2012 at 11:08 PM.
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  6. #86
    blokesbloke blokesbloke is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaramouche View Post
    Is the problem with the brain having the wrong body or is it the body having the wrong brain?
    It could be said to be either, however the body is easier to modify so that is what is done.
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  7. #87
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by simeongrimes View Post
    Tombo

    The birth certificate is a key testament of our identities. Your identity should be a matter for yourself not the state and where there is a conflict the individual should decide. Why are you happy for people to change their name but not their gender. They are both just words on a document.
    What if you met a woman in a club and got unusually lucky and went back to her place for some sexual healing.

    If that woman had at one time been a man, would she be obliged to inform you? How would you feel if she didn't and you later found out?

    Would you say, ah, it's just a word on a document?
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  8. #88
    MrFunkyBoogaloo MrFunkyBoogaloo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaramouche View Post
    Is the problem with the brain having the wrong body or is it the body having the wrong brain?
    Is that a real question?
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  9. #89
    Tim Johnston Tim Johnston is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socratus O' Pericles View Post
    The Chick fil A debate is interesting they are having an Appreciation Day-600,000 people on facebook are backing Huckabee's support for their owners position on gay marriage i.e. he is very much against it. Here is one view

    Chick-fil-A supporters turn out across the country - The Washington Post
    Good quote.

    On one level people showing disgust/support for an organisation based on the behaviour and/or opinion of the President is the free market working its magic, on another it could be quite interesting to see how consistent protestors are willing to be regarding spending their money with corporations whose presidents they do agree with.

    What group is he referring to in the comment do you know? where Dan Cathy donated five million dollars?
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  10. #90
    MrFunkyBoogaloo MrFunkyBoogaloo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socratus O' Pericles View Post
    The Chick fil A debate is interesting they are having an Appreciation Day-600,000 people on facebook are backing Huckabee's support for their owners position on gay marriage i.e. he is very much against it. Here is one view



    Chick-fil-A supporters turn out across the country - The Washington Post
    What a bunch of morons!
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