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  1. #581
    Twin Towers Twin Towers is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monday Monday View Post
    I think the point your are missing Equinox is that it is acceptable to stroll down O'Connell street in a Burka.
    You don't want it to be, but it is.
    If it's not acceptable in France, why should it be acceptable here?
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  2. #582
    statsman statsman is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twin Towers View Post
    If it's not acceptable in France, why should it be acceptable here?
    Because we're just nicer people than the French.
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  3. #583
    Kevin Parlon Kevin Parlon is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
    A valiant effort Mr. Parlon, but a losing battle. The problem with dealing with the relativists like Mercurial is that they accept no objective truth.
    Merc likes to argue by careful parsing and reductionism. This is a well known and valid debating technique beloved of philosophy and rhetoric graduates. It is lethal when ranged against people with logical flaws in their argument but has an undesirable side effect in that when not used justly it tends to bury the substantive by attacking and parsing points not signal to the central argument.
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  4. #584
    Monday Monday Monday Monday is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twin Towers View Post
    If it's not acceptable in France, why should it be acceptable here?
    I don't know.

    But at least you are being honest by stating your opinions as your opinions rather than as facts.
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  5. #585
    Equinox Equinox is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monday Monday View Post
    I think the point your are missing Equinox is that it is acceptable to stroll down O'Connell street in a Burka.
    You don't want it to be, but it is.

    Just as it is acceptable for a Punk Rocker to stroll down O'Connell street with a t-shirt showing an aborted foetus impaled on a coat hanger.

    Distasteful? Yes. Acceptable? Yes.
    I don't think that I'm missing the point at all. The French have decided that it IS unacceptable to walk down the Champs Elysee wearing a Burkha, I’d imagine that the majority of Irish people would consider the Burkha or niqab culturally unacceptable also, we’re just too gutless to challenge it and stand up for our own cultural values in the manner that the French have (nothing new there of course).
    As for your attempt to draw an equivalence between a punk expressing an obnoxious attitude and a woman conditioned to think of herself as a second class citizen that must remain covered and unapproachable, it’s not the same thing at all (nice relativist dodge though but I won’t be pin dancing for you). Hell, she might be wearing the same T-shirt, we’d never know though because that kind of self expression is not permitted to her, and THAT is the point.
    Last edited by Equinox; 6th July 2012 at 09:12 AM.
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  6. #586
    Monday Monday Monday Monday is offline
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    So, things are "unacceptable" but we are too gutless to do anything about it.

    You realise that is an oxymoron.
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  7. #587
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
    ence between a punk expressing an obnoxious attitude and a woman conditioned to think of herself as a second class citizen that must remain covered and unapproachable, it’s not the same thing at all (nice relativist dodge though but I won’t be pin dancing for you). Hell, she might be wearing the same T-shirt, we’d never know though because that kind of self expression is not permitted to her, and THAT is the point.
    Excellent post.
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  8. #588
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monday Monday View Post
    So, things are "unacceptable" but we are too gutless to do anything about it.

    You realise that is an oxymoron.
    The "we" was directed at our politicians rather than the people themselves.
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  9. #589
    statsman statsman is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
    I don't think that I'm missing the point at all. The French have decided that it IS unacceptable to walk down the Champs Elysee wearing a Burkha, I’d imagine that the majority of Irish people would consider the Burkha or niqab culturally unacceptable also, we’re just too gutless to challenge it and stand up for our own cultural values in the manner that the French have (nothing new there of course).
    As for your attempt to draw an equivalence between a punk expressing an obnoxious attitude and a woman conditioned to think of herself as a second class citizen that must remain covered and unapproachable, it’s not the same thing at all (nice relativist dodge though but I won’t be pin dancing for you). Hell, she might be wearing the same T-shirt, we’d never know though because that kind of self expression is not permitted to her, and THAT is the point.
    Fortunately, public policy is not built upon the shaky ground of your imagination.
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  10. #590
    Kevin Parlon Kevin Parlon is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
    If it’s not acceptable to stroll down the main streets of Riyadh in a Bikini, then it should be equally offensive to stroll down O’ Connell St in a Burkha.
    You've walked into the trap of using the social values of Riyadh as a comparison for what we should do in Ireland. That doesn't work, when you follow it through. I don't like people wearing burkas; I worry about what it signifies, however, I would hesitiate before I said "ban them". The people who are here, are here. We just need to pay attention to how our society evolves and I would say the presence of burkas indicates our society is starting to evolve in a manner most Irish people are not happy with. That's the issue.
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