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  1. #1
    Humbert Humbert is offline
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    Dull Boys Wanted - The Uncreative Irish

    Interesting article from Desmond Fennell in the IT today on the dullness and derivate nature of Irish thought

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...319176098.html

    In it Fennell says;

    'In 1972 Prof SeŠn ” Tuama of University College Cork, in a Thomas Davis lecture on The Gaelic League Idea, said: “In business, science, engineering, architecture, medicine, industry, law, home-making, agriculture, education, politics and administration – from economic planning to PAYE, from town planning to traffic laws – the bulk of our thinking is derivative.

    “One doubts if we have added anything of real importance to sociological or theological, philosophic or aesthetic thought.” '

    Forty years later that remains substantially true...'

    I have to say, I agree with Fennell in this and I marvel how the Irish manage to maintain for themselves the illusion that they are an exceptionally creative race - probably by excluding voices like Desmond Fennell from public life.

    Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?
    Last edited by Humbert; 2nd July 2012 at 07:50 PM.
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  2. #2
    Deaf Mute Deaf Mute is offline

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    Another "beat the Irish to keep them down" thread I see.
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  3. #3
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbert View Post
    Interesting article from Desmond Fennell in the IT today on the dullness and derivate nature of Irish thought - in it he says;

    'In 1972 Prof SeŠn ” Tuama of University College Cork, in a Thomas Davis lecture on The Gaelic League Idea, said: “In business, science, engineering, architecture, medicine, industry, law, home-making, agriculture, education, politics and administration – from economic planning to PAYE, from town planning to traffic laws – the bulk of our thinking is derivative.

    “One doubts if we have added anything of real importance to sociological or theological, philosophic or aesthetic thought.” '

    Forty years later that remains substantially true...'

    I have to say, I agree with Fennell in this and I marvel how the Irish manage to maintain for themselves the illusion for themselves that they are a creative race - probably by excluding voices like Desmond Fennell from public life.

    Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?
    Sounds like Desmond Fennell producing another unoriginal and derivative newspaper article to me.
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  4. #4
    Humbert Humbert is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deaf Mute View Post
    Another "beat the Irish to keep them down" thread I see.
    Anything to contribute to the actually issue in hand or will you just be throwing handfuls of muck? Fennell is an extremely intelligent and erudite man and I for one find his arguments persuasive - as do a lot of other people.

    If you wish to counter him put up your argument.
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  5. #5
    greengoose2 greengoose2 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deaf Mute View Post
    Another "beat the Irish to keep them down" thread I see.
    You have to admit that there is not shortage of ammunition for that!
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  6. #6
    Humbert Humbert is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    Sounds like Desmond Fennell producing another unoriginal and derivative newspaper article to me.
    I was going to put it in OP that I expected that kind of response but to business - do you disagree with any of his arguments and if so how?

    Play the ball now, not the man.
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  7. #7
    Riadach Riadach is offline

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    I dare say that you wouldn't have found SeŠn ” Tuama's solution to the problem particularly appealing.
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  8. #8
    Deaf Mute Deaf Mute is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbert View Post
    Anything to contribute to the actually issue in hand or will you just be throwing handfuls of muck? Fennell is an extremely intelligent and erudite man and I for one find his arguments persuasive - as do a lot of other people.

    If you wish to counter him put up your argument.
    After hours of searching for something for a "beat the Irish to keep them down" thread, you must have wet yourself with excitement when you dug this nugget up.
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  9. #9
    happytuesdays happytuesdays is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbert View Post
    Interesting article from Desmond Fennell in the IT today on the dullness and derivate nature of Irish thought - in it he says;

    'In 1972 Prof SeŠn ” Tuama of University College Cork, in a Thomas Davis lecture on The Gaelic League Idea, said: “In business, science, engineering, architecture, medicine, industry, law, home-making, agriculture, education, politics and administration – from economic planning to PAYE, from town planning to traffic laws – the bulk of our thinking is derivative.

    “One doubts if we have added anything of real importance to sociological or theological, philosophic or aesthetic thought.” '

    Forty years later that remains substantially true...'

    I have to say, I agree with Fennell in this and I marvel how the Irish manage to maintain for themselves the illusion for themselves that they are a creative race - probably by excluding voices like Desmond Fennell from public life.

    Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?
    Ireland is a Volksgemeinschaft and a society in which connectedness is all.
    Creativity is an act of rebellion and Ireland is profoundly conservative and offers a clearly laid set of ways to 'play the game'.
    Also the bulk of thinking in most societies is derivative.
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  10. #10
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbert View Post
    I was going to put it in OP that I expected that kind of response but to business - do you disagree with any of his arguments and if so how?

    Play the ball now, not the man.
    'Nations' are sets of individuals when it comes to thinking, not hive minds, and a handful of individual in any given generation produce genuinely unique ideas. It would be true to say that “In business, science, engineering, architecture, medicine, industry, law, home-making, agriculture, education, politics and administration – from economic planning to PAYE, from town planning to traffic law's – the bulk of human thinking is derivative.

    The Irish 'nation', or rather the people who have inhabited the island we call Ireland, produced Johannes Scotus Eriugena,George Berkeley, Robert Boyle, John Toland, William Rowan Hamilton, Ernest Walton, W.B. Yeats, James Joyce, J.M. Synge, Sean O'Casey and Sam Beckett. Not a bad list from the top of my head.
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