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  1. #51
    Accattone Accattone is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    Agreed, I noticed the widespread use of camels and magic carpets in the Gaeltacht
    Never noticed myself, but it might be a better explanation, than the sea routes, as to how they got here!
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  2. #52
    jdaly jdaly is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruimh View Post
    Step dancing came from abroad - A Turkish friend was watching Eurovision SC a few years back when the Irish entry had dancers - and said it was the same as he was taught as traditional Turkish Dancing of his region.
    and soldiers brought much of the set dances back from abroad too.
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  3. #53
    runwiththewind runwiththewind is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    Ok, some people will see my name attached to this thread and go into overdrive on the accusations, but... just browsing Youtube and seen an Irish Dancing thingy and watched a bit of it. Got me thinking: is there some known historical origin to this style of Dancing (Scottish & Irish) or is it something that came in the 19th Century with the whole Celtic Revival thing? Genuinely interested, not baiting anyone. Somehow I find it hard to imagine a bunch of rough Gaels in the 10th century dancing one of these graceful jigs around their campfire.
    There is a distinction between step and set/ceilí dancing. Three step dances are mentioned in 15th century literature, Irish Hey, Rinnce Fada (long dance) and Tranrore. There is plenty of correspondence from English and Scottish settlers who wrote about native dance. In the Statues of Kilkenny, all Irish sport and dances were banned. Set dancing, I believe, is a mixture of step, Elizabethan and Scottish dances. A mismash, as they weren't too dissimilar.

    As for the bodhrán, a traditional drum and the tin whistle is a native instrument, initially fashioned as a child's toy. When played well, is has a beautiful soulful sound.

    Drumming and dance are found in all cultures. Of course they are similar, after all, how many ways can you beat a drum and shake a leg?
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  4. #54
    dubhthach dubhthach is offline

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    Regarding similarities in dance, well I'm always reminded about what Bruce Lee said when asked about styles of martial arts, he basically said that unless men grew extra legs or hands that there are always going to be similarities as we are restricted by basically the bio-mechanics of our bodies (I'm paraphrasing)

    Likewise forms of dance are gonna look similiar, you also have to remember that Ireland is part of a wider culture zone. If we just look at linguistic relations you have an area stretching from Irish in the West to Bengali in the East that belongs to the one language family (Indo-European).
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  5. #55
    dubhthach dubhthach is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    I did one of those DNA test thingies at Oxford University to trace my paternal lineage through Y-Chromosome DNA. It turned out that, though my male line (as far as I know) is as west of Ireland, Gaelic as can be, my Y-chromosome group was E3b - same as the Berbers (apparently about 2% of the original inhabitants of Ireland in post-Ice Age times weren't R1b at all, but E3b).

    Thus there is a very ancient tie between the people who are now Berbers and the Ireland via Atlantic trading routes. Plus, of course, farming came to Ireland in Neolithic times from the Middle East via south-eastern Europe. It stands to reason that it left its mark on our culture (and by extension that of Scotland).
    E3b? How long ago did you get that test, that's quite an old designation and dates from before alot of the sub-branches were known. This haplgroup is now known as E1b1b1* and is marked by the SNP (binary marker -- either + or -) called M35.

    If you compare the current draft to the one from 2008 you can see amount of change in last 4 years:
    http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?name=YCC2008&parent=61263830
    http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?name=Draft&parent=61263830

    The problem with using a tree like the one from 2002 is that it only has some of major branches on it. as a result you end up with very broad swipes. If you look at distrubition using modern tree you see that yes you will find M35 in North Africa and Europe. However there is a different distrubition of different sub-branches between the two areas. (M35 is very old).

    Compare the 2002 and 2008 YCC (Y Chromosome Consortium) tree here for the amount of churn in that period.
    http://ycc.biosci.arizona.edu/nomenc...ystem/fig1.pdf

    http://genome.cshlp.org/content/supp...ree_Poster.pdf

    More then like your Haplogroup E lineage refelects the fact that you are descedned from the first farmers in Ireland (the people who eventually built Newgrange). In comparison over 70% of Irishmen belong to a branch of R1b (L21 -- R1b1a2a1a1b4) that only first arose about 4,000 years ago (during the Bronze age) on the continent.

    In other words your paternal ancestry has probably been in Ireland longer then 70%+ of Irishmen. Though of course only way to be certain would be to have it tested with a more up to date list of SNP's.

    The problem with academic studies of Y-Chromosomes is they tend to be several years behind what's actually been discovered. pfff
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  6. #56
    PO'Neill PO'Neill is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty1 View Post
    The Ulster Scots thing never took off. You obviously know nothing about Ulster Scots culture because It was already there before it was brought up. People round here were speaking in that Tongue and making strahey etc from the very beginning. Its just being promoted.
    " Bleedin' load a' bollox " - Dublin Viking ' language '
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  7. #57
    dubhthach dubhthach is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by PO'Neill View Post
    " Bleedin' load a' bollox " - Dublin Viking ' language '
    There was always Fingalian, though it's been extinct for couple hundred years, here's some from 1698

    Ribbeen a roon
    Ribbeen moorneeng
    Thoo ware good for loand stroand and mounteen
    For rig a tool and roast a whiteen
    Reddy tha taakle
    Gather tha baarnacks
    Drink a grote at Nauny Hapennys

    Translation:

    Robin my love
    Robin my dear
    Thou were good for land, strand and mountain
    Good with a tool and [at] roast[ing] a Whiting
    Ready the tackle
    Gather the bannocks
    Drink a groat at Nanny Halfpenny's [alehouse]
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  8. #58
    Frosty1 Frosty1 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by PO'Neill View Post
    " Bleedin' load a' bollox " - Dublin Viking ' language '
    Says the boy from West Belfast. No experience whatsoever.
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  9. #59
    Ulster-Lad Ulster-Lad is offline
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