Ear to the Ground: New Zealand produces 4 times the amount of milk we do!

[Schuhart]

For a fella that does not know you are making plenty of positive statements on how useless the natural resource based industries of agri and tourism are.

Different issue; the contribution of agriculture and tourism are known. You are making assertions about what our agricultural sector is good at, without any substance behind what you say at all.

Maybe you are right. Maybe you are wrong. The point is you don't seem to know yourself. And your comment to the effect that you haven't a clue but "the point still stands" is classic.

Your attitude to the farmer in financial difficulty is the typical one of f... you I am all right Jack.

Why is someone who overpaid for a farm in 2007 particularly deserving of our concern? I'm sure the threat of insolvency is a problem for that individual. But, yes, its nothing more to do with me than an insolvent builder, or someone who paid a six figure sum for a taxi plate.

Your assumption is that your figures are better than mine. We will let the rest of the posters decide on that themselves.

Fine.

Your oft expressed hatred for 'the current cohort of farmers' has been eloquently and indignantly plastered all over these threads.

What hatred? I can assure you that I'm utterly indifferent to them.

The current generation will be replaced by a new generation now in school or ag college or university or wherever. They will deal with the problems of the future the way their forefathers dealt with the problems of the past.

You mean, by leaving the land? Fine, that's best for all concerned.

Number Employed in Agriculture, April 1926 = 672,129

Source:http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/cen...%20V2%20T1.pdf

Number Employed in Agriculture, Forestry & Fishing Apr-Jun 2005 = 109,800

Number Employed in Agriculture, Forestry & Fishing Apr-Jun 2011 = 85,800

Source:Principal Statistics - CSO - Central Statistics Office

[shiel]

Different issue; the contribution of agriculture and tourism are known. You are making assertions about what our agricultural sector is good at, without any substance behind what you say at all.

Maybe you are right. Maybe you are wrong. The point is you don't seem to know yourself. And your comment to the effect that you haven't a clue but "the point still stands" is classic.Why is someone who overpaid for a farm in 2007 particularly deserving of our concern? I'm sure the threat of insolvency is a problem for that individual. But, yes, its nothing more to do with me than an insolvent builder, or someone who paid a six figure sum for a taxi plate.Fine.What hatred? I can assure you that I'm utterly indifferent to them.You mean, by leaving the land? Fine, that's best for all concerned.

Number Employed in Agriculture, April 1926 = 672,129

Source:http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/cen...%20V2%20T1.pdf

Number Employed in Agriculture, Forestry & Fishing Apr-Jun 2005 = 109,800

Number Employed in Agriculture, Forestry & Fishing Apr-Jun 2011 = 85,800

Source:Principal Statistics - CSO - Central Statistics Office

Look. This bickering between us about the contribution of the natural resource based industries to our economy is just that - bickering. Each of us is coming at it from a different perspective and reaches different conclusions.

There is nothing wrong with that.

Given the scale of our problems I hope that these industries contribute their maximum to the welfare of our society whatever policy is pursued.

[deiseguy]

With 4 times as many cows?
Or from the same number as us?


The UPH analysis of this would be interesting.

Ah, metrics, where would we be without them?

About 5 times as many based on average milk yields

[deiseguy]

Utter nonsense. The payments are so the farmers stay within the quotas and therefore keeping prices above a market equilibrium. Did you study at the Marc Coleman school of economics or something?

Nah mate you are the one spouting nonsense. There is a fine of arond 27cent/l for every litre a farmer produces above his quota should the national quota be exceeded.

[Oriel27]

he got screwed on the cows , whatever about the land , you could buy two cows for 2500 euro back in 2007

At present there still seems to be some sort of future in milk.

yes this is the average price for good holstein - high milk yeilding cows. you wont get a decent milk cow for under 2K at todays prices.

this is the average price for cows in Ballybay mart last weekend. I believe cows are cheaper down south.

milk is making about 31 cent a litre now.

so what is the whole worry about milk then?

[Barnsleyfc]

The problem in this country is the small holdings that are so prevalent especially in the west.The minimum viable farm to earn a full-time living would be at least 50 acres and that's a low estimate.If we had more full-time farmers and fewer part-time it would benefit agriculture hugely.

[Schuhart]

Look. This bickering between us about the contribution of the natural resource based industries to our economy is just that - bickering. Each of us is coming at it from a different perspective and reaches different conclusions.

There is nothing wrong with that.

There's obviously nothing wrong with disagreement. But you are wrong to describe the matter as 'bickering.' My contention - that people have a distorted picture of the scale and value of the agricultural and tourism sectors - is not a minor point.

Nor can you equate my position, which I've backed with relevant evidence, and your position, which is simply assertion that you are unable to substantiate.

Given the scale of our problems I hope that these industries contribute their maximum to the welfare of our society whatever policy is pursued.

Absolutely, I can be folksy too.

The point is that people talk as if these sectors have the capacity to generate enough wealth to satisfy our national expectations. They don't.

[willoughby]

Ireland isn't New Zealand so you have to look at a number of differences we have.

Land availability: It's not like farmers can just buy 500ha very handily in one block and plop a milking parlour down in the middle of it. Land is still very dear to rent and buy in Ireland so expansion can be limited.

Ireland is also alot smalller than new zealand and not all of the land in it is suitable for dairy farming.

Dairy farmers really don't receive a whole lot in the way of historical payments as it is.

All Irish farmers are also paid towards welfare and environmental friendliness. Move away from this if you want but NZ farmers show about as much interest in their bull calves as a dog does with calves. The government doesn't care a whole lot either.

New Zealand farms are largely supported by cheap labour getting paid something like 300€ for 50 - 60 hours.

NZ farmers generally buy a farmwhen they are young, spend their lives paying it off and then sell it, maybe not overbad in many people eyes but it would represent a huge shake up in Irish agriculture (farm handovers to sons daughters etc) Cant imaging too many banks giving a you many 5 million to buy land in Ireland. This system isn't yet feasible.

[Barnsleyfc]

Ireland isn't New Zealand so you have to look at a number of differences we have.

Land availability: It's not like farmers can just buy 500ha very handily in one block and plop a milking parlour down in the middle of it. Land is still very dear to rent and buy in Ireland so expansion can be limited.

Ireland is also alot smalller than new zealand and not all of the land in it is suitable for dairy farming.

Dairy farmers really don't receive a whole lot in the way of historical payments as it is.

All Irish farmers are also paid towards welfare and environmental friendliness. Move away from this if you want but NZ farmers show about as much interest in their bull calves as a dog does with calves. The government doesn't care a whole lot either.

New Zealand farms are largely supported by cheap labour getting paid something like 300€ for 50 - 60 hours.

NZ farmers generally buy a farmwhen they are young, spend their lives paying it off and then sell it, maybe not overbad in many people eyes but it would represent a huge shake up in Irish agriculture (farm handovers to sons daughters etc) Cant imaging too many banks giving a you many 5 million to buy land in Ireland. This system isn't yet feasible.

Terrific post!

[Oriel27]

Ireland isn't New Zealand so you have to look at a number of differences we have.

Land availability: It's not like farmers can just buy 500ha very handily in one block and plop a milking parlour down in the middle of it. Land is still very dear to rent and buy in Ireland so expansion can be limited.

Ireland is also alot smalller than new zealand and not all of the land in it is suitable for dairy farming.

Dairy farmers really don't receive a whole lot in the way of historical payments as it is.

All Irish farmers are also paid towards welfare and environmental friendliness. Move away from this if you want but NZ farmers show about as much interest in their bull calves as a dog does with calves. The government doesn't care a whole lot either.

New Zealand farms are largely supported by cheap labour getting paid something like 300€ for 50 - 60 hours.

NZ farmers generally buy a farmwhen they are young, spend their lives paying it off and then sell it, maybe not overbad in many people eyes but it would represent a huge shake up in Irish agriculture (farm handovers to sons daughters etc) Cant imaging too many banks giving a you many 5 million to buy land in Ireland. This system isn't yet feasible.

its the attachment to land, its the arrigance and ignorance of farmers.

farming in Ireland is still very much a way of life for people and thus is treated like that and not treated like a business

My parents are farmers. My Dad wouldnt really care if he makes a profit/ or loss, its what he does. Now granted he doesnt have any over heads plus the mother has a good job etc.

No in New Zealand / US its a business. I used to work with a guy from the states who's father had 5K cows on 15 k acres. that was a business. there was no attachment to the land, if it was making a loss - he would get out.

no in Ireland its still about the love of the land.

a few months ago in North Monaghan - 10 acres of land went for 150 K. it was alll the neighbour farmers bidding against each other. the land was not work that. it was hilling, full of Whin bushes and badly drained. but is was about - ownership. Just to own it that was it.

i know of other cases within the same area were land went sky high to keep some out of it (because he had a different religion) - but lets leave that to another day.