Register to Comment
Page 3 of 30 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 300
Like Tree113Likes
  1. #21
    Munnkeyman Munnkeyman is offline
    Munnkeyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    13,024

    Quote Originally Posted by rhonda15 View Post
    Sounds like a serious lack of oversight by the Bishops and the Catholic hierarchy.

    Between paedophile priests costing them a packet and the squandering clerics the C.Church in Ireland better watch out.

    Although ... would anyone hazard a guess at the real wealth of the Catholic Church (Worldwide Inc) ... incalculable.
    Definitely not just in Ireland.
    Worldwide who knows, Der Spiegel valiantly tried to calculate their wealth in Germany
    and it has to be said they failed. Lots of dipping into funds and the like.

    Financial Scandals: The Hidden Wealth of the Catholic Church - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
    More than €40 million have gone missing in the Diocese of Magdeburg in eastern Germany,
    €5 million have disappeared in Limburg near Frankfurt, and it was recently discovered
    that a senior priest in the Diocese of Münster had 30 secret bank accounts. And while parishes
    throughout Germany are cutting jobs and funds for community work, many bishops are still living
    on the high horse. A brand-new residence? An ostentatious home for their retirement?
    Restoration of a Marian column to the tune of €120,000? None of these expenditures
    presents a problem to high-ranking church officials from Trier in the west to Passau in the southeastern
    corner of Bavaria, whose coffers are brimming with cash.
    Their funding from taxpayers amounted to an estimated €17 Billion in 2000
    alone.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  2. #22
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    19,378

    Quote Originally Posted by rhonda15 View Post
    No wonder the Catholic church is dying on it's feet.

    Do the sensible thing and complain to his Bishop.

    The inevitable downturn in parish collections will surely pr*ck up the Bishops interest.

    If enough people complain to the Bishop change will happen. (I should imagine)
    Unfortunately I know the bishop from my journalism days and his degree of arrogance beats Banagher. When he was first appointed one of his first engagements was to preside at the funeral of the then local parish priest (he of the community hall fame). He put on a show of modesty and holiness, coming up the old church as if he was the servant of the servants of god.

    Unfortunately his show was too good! I was sitting in the side aisle as a teenager and watched as the so-and-so slipped out a side door when no-one noticed his underplayed arrival, and re-appeared again at the main door, giving the priests in the church enough time to let the people know that "our new, modest, quiet holy bishop" was arriving. When he say that he 'had' the congregation's attention he then milked it for all it was worth, doing his "weight of the world on his shoulders/a man of modesty and goodness" act. But even the priests said it was a con.

    The man's arrogance is legendary. So unfortunately telling him would do no good. His attitude would be one of 'how dare mere parishioners try to complain about their wonderful priest that I picked out personally for them!'

    The arrogance of some bishops are priceless. Remember the bishop of Cobh who tried to spend a fortune re-ordering his historic and priceless cathedral? When the Heritage Council and planners said 'no way' he threw a tantrum. He had already arrogantly brushed aside complaints from the people of Cobh. But couldn't get around the planners. But boy did he sulk!

    Or Éamon Casey who destroyed one of the jewels in the Irish Church, the 19th century Victorian gothic interior of Killarney Cathedral, despite appeals about how historic the interior was. Or Bishop Duffy of Clogher, who utterly destroyed St Macartan's Cathedral interior and replaced it with a kitsch interior? Or the destruction of the historic interior of the cathedral in Cork and replaced it with an interior more suited for an ABBA concert?

    The arrogance of the bishops is astounding.

    Though I must admit the creepiest of all I found was when I went to the Catholic Communications Centre in the 1990s once to do an interview for an article. What I saw was a mix of arrogant superiority and complete weirdness - down to the guy I met with the dark glasses who deigned to talk to a journalist while drinking tea from the best china served by scurrying nuns. All that was missing was a white furry cat for him to come across as a convincing 1960s Bond villain!

    I still shiver thinking about that oddball.

    On a side note our PP is also very arrogant (though not as bad as yours), the sense of entitlement is unbelievable.
    In the local shop he expects to be served straight to the head of the queue. I notice he tends to ingratiate himself with the wealthy of the parish.
    In fairness though he does give the odd good sermon.

    *I am somewhat of a lapsed Catholic, consider myself a Catholic in nominal terms, go to mass maybe 4/5 times a year.
    That sense of entitlement is really astonishing. The old guys pre-Vatican II were openly arrogant. Post Vatican II priests seem just as arrogant, just while masking it in casual clothes and a Fr Trendy-type tendency to talk in soft clichés. They are just as arrogant, but will dress it up as 'consultation' by consulting to the specially hand-picked Parish Council there to do as he wants.

    I myself was extremely religious, but became very alienated from things I discovered about the Church and their cover-ups. But I still feel an affinity with the parish of my birth where my family still live, and they are still religious, but increasingly finding the arrogance of the priests they come into contact with off-putting. They are still Catholics in spite of, not because of, the priests.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  3. #23
    EvotingMachine0197 EvotingMachine0197 is offline
    EvotingMachine0197's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    13,988

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    ...

    I am not religious. But many neighbours and relatives are. And they are fed up with him, his arrogance, his bullying, his refusal to suit anyone but himself. Nor is he alone. Other local parishes also have arrogant priests who run up big bills and do what they want, listen to nobody, and pack the parish council with yes men and yes women.

    So the question is simple: why are parish priests in particular so utterly arrogant and why are they incapable of listening to the voice of their parishioners?
    Out of curiousity Tommy, have any of the locals told the PP to go ************************ himself ?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  4. #24
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    19,378

    Quote Originally Posted by Observer View Post
    As someone pointed out above, you're generalising from a sample of one. You're going to get a spread of personality types among any occupation, and you seem to have been unlucky in this instance.

    A couple of questions:

    a) Is there only a Sunday Mass in the parish, or is there a Saturday evening Mass as well?
    There is a Saturday evening Mass and a Sunday morning Mass. He changed the times of both to what is practically the worst possible times for all the farmers in a predominantly farming parish. Animals live by routines, and so they are normally milked on farms at the same time morning and evening, with their production times matching the animals own body clocks.

    He has moved both Masses to slap bang in the middle of the milking time for all local farmers. So either they have to milk the cows too early or too late (as in either as late as midnight on Saturday or dawn on Sunday). But he won't listen to complaints from all the locals that the times are disastrous for them. So a lot of local farmer are having to stop going to the local Mass that they families having been going to for generations and go to parishes ten miles away with more sane Mass times.

    b) Is the priest only repsonsible for one parish or has he to juggle service times in other parishes?
    One parish with a number of churches. All the times in the churches were co-ordinated to suit the communities in the parish. He has changed all the Masses in all the churches to times that don't suit anyone but himself, and ignores all appeals to change them back.


    c) Is there no tradition of removals to the church the evening before the funeral, which is often going to be a more convenient time for people to sympathise with the bereaved rather than on the morning of the funeral itself?
    That is when the sympathising took place. He insists it cannot take place in the church, and must take place in the cemetery nearby. So having removed the remains to the church, the family and congregation must all leave and walk to the cemetery.

    Two weeks ago an elderly couple whose daughter had died of cancer had to hold the sympathising in the cemetery. It started to rain heavily during it and while everyone else was able to run to their cars the old couple couldn't. The best the undertaker could do was try to shield them under a couple of big umbrellas as they walked as quick as they could to his car. The undertaker has pleaded with the priest to change the thing back, pointing out that it was already dangerous now, but imagine what it will be like come the dark nights of winter, with frost or snow. But he won't budge.

    I suggested to locals that if he refuses to budge, they either ignore him and begin the sympathising in the church as before - what can he do? Start throwing out 200 people? - or point out that if any of them in injured clamouring over graves to offer their sympathy they will sue the priest personally for the injury caused. Since he won't listen to reason from the entire community, including people who have been going to that church for sixty or seventy years, maybe the threat to sue him if anyone is injured might focus his mind.

    The man's arrogance is breath-taking. And yet he poses as a 'simple man of God' willing to work with people and all into community spirit. Except that his definition of community spirit is a community that doesn't what he wants and pays his bills.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  5. #25
    Mitsui2 Mitsui2 is offline
    Mitsui2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    36,287

    Quote Originally Posted by Odyessus View Post
    Shouldn't this be in your parish newspaper? You say you are not religious yourself. Why then don't you mind your own business?
    Because the buggers keep insisting that they have a right to impinge on our business!

    Which is of course some improvement - in the past they insisted on dictating our business.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  6. #26
    Mitsui2 Mitsui2 is offline
    Mitsui2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    36,287

    Quote Originally Posted by dunno View Post
    Oh no, another fúcking Church bashing thread. Boring. And lots of the same crap that gets posted in every such thread.
    So I see from your contribution.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  7. #27
    Mitsui2 Mitsui2 is offline
    Mitsui2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    36,287

    Quote Originally Posted by SideysGhost View Post
    *shrugs*

    As long as a strange foreign cult exists that appears to view its officials as being above the law of the land, and not amenable to local law enforcement for the most appalling of crimes; and as long as the very same foreign cult has control over schools, hospitals, land banks, wealth, and apparently the minds of huge numbers of senior State officials and politicians....

    ...then there will be threads bashing that weird foreign cult and its pernicious, pervasive and abusive influence on Irish life.

    And rightly so.
    +1

    Though I'm a bit uneasy about your stress on the word "foreign" - should we go back to worshipping our own gods or something? Not that I've anything against it - that old Aengus Óg, he was a character!

    Just wondering about your own position: does foreignness cheapen gods per se?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  8. #28
    Mitsui2 Mitsui2 is offline
    Mitsui2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    36,287

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    No. The same problem is found in tons of parishes. 3 neighbouring parishes have similar problems with new priests who are going on a squander-mania, without consultation. I know of parishes in Dublin with the same thing happened. Last week I was at a family get-together with relatives on another side of the family. The relative asked what happened to that lovely old Georgian church there used to be in our parish and who the hell allowed it to be turned into the kitsch monstrosity it became in the 1990s?
    Tommy, have you ever read Gibbon? If I remember correctly, he has a section on how the rule of local Imperial officials became more bizarre and whacked out as the Empire degenerated, to the extent that they became both a symptom and a cause of its final collapse.

    Perhaps it's the same with the spiritual clone.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  9. #29
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    19,378

    Quote Originally Posted by EvotingMachine0197 View Post
    Out of curiousity Tommy, have any of the locals told the PP to go ************************ himself ?
    I have told them to stand up to him. But they have learnt since childhood to obey the Church - how it is the voice of God, bla bla bla. They have tried politely to explain how really unhappy they are with what he is doing, but he pulls the psychological trick of how to oppose him is to oppose God, etc.

    They have been conditioned to be obedient.

    What fascinates me is what makes priests so incredibly arrogant? Even in college in the 1980s it fascinated me - the priests I knew then (and I was quite religious then) were all informal and pretended to be one-of-the-gang. But I could see how they were manipulating people's trust to get what they wanted. And if they couldn't get what they wanted directly, they would pull all sorts of tricks to do so.

    I was also stuck by how their arrogance also went hand-in-hand with breathtaking ignorance. I remember in college once a student with back trouble tripped on a mat and injured his back again. One woman in the group was a nurse and trained physiotherapist. She gave him a distinctly non-sexual back massage to ease the pain. Far from being sexual, she actually couldn't stand the guy, but he was in pain and she was a physio. It happened in the chaplaincy and a party, in front of people. A priest stormed in and began screaming at them how dare they have sex in the chaplaincy in a room full of people.

    The rest of us stood there dumb-founded, wondering what planet the guy was on. Did he actually even know what sex was? How anyone could imagine a clear physio treatment to someone in so much pain he was crying, was sex, was beyond me. The scary was that that priest was an advisor to the Catholic archbishop of Dublin at the time on young people and sex. And the idiot didn't even know the difference between physio and sex. It was one of those moments when I realised that the clergy really hadn't a god-damned clue what they were talking about, but didn't let chronic ignorance stand in the way of their arrogance.

    Even when a doctor arrived to give the guy a pain-killing injection, the priest still didn't seem to accept that sex had not been taking place. Going by his ignorance, I wouldn't be surprised if he thought the doctor shoving a needle for the injection in his bum was actually having anal sex with him too!
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  10. #30
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    19,378

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsui2 View Post
    Tommy, have you ever read Gibbon? If I remember correctly, he has a section on how the rule of local Imperial officials became more bizarre and whacked out as the Empire degenerated, to the extent that they became both a symptom and a cause of its final collapse.

    Perhaps it's the same with the spiritual clone.
    Very good point. I hadn't thought of that. It has the ring of truth about it. It reminds me also of Acton's comment about "absolute power corrupts absolutely".
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

Page 3 of 30 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Sign in to CommentRegister to Comment