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  1. #11
    SideysGhost SideysGhost is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by dunno View Post
    Oh no, another fúcking Church bashing thread.
    *shrugs*

    As long as a strange foreign cult exists that appears to view its officials as being above the law of the land, and not amenable to local law enforcement for the most appalling of crimes; and as long as the very same foreign cult has control over schools, hospitals, land banks, wealth, and apparently the minds of huge numbers of senior State officials and politicians....

    ...then there will be threads bashing that weird foreign cult and its pernicious, pervasive and abusive influence on Irish life.

    And rightly so.
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  2. #12
    rhonda15 rhonda15 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    Cardinal Brady said yesterday in Knock that the Church had in effect learnt its lesson and was now more modest and more listening.

    That is not my experience. I have come across experiences that tell me priests, particular parish priests, are as arrogant as ever as ever in their communities? *That is why I put this thread in this forum, BTW. 'Community' topics go here in Culture and Community.*

    Twenty years ago the then parish priest in my parish decided to rebuild the very old church in the parish. The community wasn't consulted as to whether it was needed or what they wanted to see done. He spent £100K at the time on a massive rebuild and re-ordering which in fact the locals hated. But he liked it, and it was entirely his business apparently. (There is a local parish council, but he had a habit of packing it with people who would agree with everything he wanted. Those who disagreed found their nominations to join 'disappearing' or ruled invalid (by him) etc. So of course the parish council, as usual, said "yes Father" to what he wanted.)

    To make it worse, the parish had only just cleared the previous debt run up by the previous parish priest. The local community needed a community hall. So he went off, without seeing what was needed, and got a hall built. The hall be built was useless - it was a glorified shed with woeful acoustics, which meant it could not be used for functions, concerts, etc. It was the wrong size for any sports use, had changing facilities that were worse than useless, and was in the wrong location. So it became a storage area, but the locals got the bill for building it.

    The local community ended up saddled with a £100K debt for a rebuild and renovation they never wanted and openly said they hated.

    The new parish priest has decided to spend tens of thousands undoing some of those changes. But again no-one was consulted. The changes will cost in the region of €40k and the debt will be given to the parishioners. But they have no say in any of it.

    The new priest decided to change Mass times on Sundays. He picked a dumb time that is totally unsuited to the needs of his local parish. It is a rural farming parish with many dairy farmers. The time he picked means that farmers will either have to start waking up their unfortunate cows at dawn to have all the farm work done by Mass time, or else leave it until after Mass and be milking at lunchtime. Again no one was consulted, and he won't listen to complaints. The new time suits him, and that is all that matters.

    He recently made a change regarding funerals. In country funerals, neighbours sympathise with the family of the deceased. That has happened for decades in the church, where it is warm, dry and crowd control is easy. The new guy has decided that it must take place in the cemetery, which is on an exposed hill. So now old people are expected to clamour over graves to get to the family to sympathise with people. People in wheelchairs or who are physically unable perhaps due to sight loss to climb over graves to get to the family cannot do it.

    Locals have pointed out that it is crazy to insist that offering sympathy takes place in the cemetery - it is dangerous, someone could get hurt and anyway the way the cemetery is laid out is a mess, with few paths and uneven gravel, courtesy of another former priest who decided that was what he wanted it to be, and where he wanted it to be.

    So in 2011, in the supposedly more modest, listening church, you have a parish priest that poses as all open and modern, but rules by diktat to suit himself. He is no different to the priests of fifty years ago. He just wears modern vestments and says the Mass in English. And for the third time in fifty years, the locals find themselves saddled with a debt they did not seek for the priest's latest spending spree, which he will then turn over to them to be cleared.

    I am not religious. But many neighbours and relatives are. And they are fed up with him, his arrogance, his bullying, his refusal to suit anyone but himself. Nor is he alone. Other local parishes also have arrogant priests who run up big bills and do what they want, listen to nobody, and pack the parish council with yes men and yes women.

    So the question is simple: why are parish priests in particular so utterly arrogant and why are they incapable of listening to the voice of their parishioners?
    No wonder the Catholic church is dying on it's feet.

    Do the sensible thing and complain to his Bishop.

    The inevitable downturn in parish collections will surely pr*ck up the Bishops interest.

    If enough people complain to the Bishop change will happen. (I should imagine)

    On a side note our PP is also very arrogant (though not as bad as yours), the sense of entitlement is unbelievable.
    In the local shop he expects to be served straight to the head of the queue. I notice he tends to ingratiate himself with the wealthy of the parish.
    In fairness though he does give the odd good sermon.

    *I am somewhat of a lapsed Catholic, consider myself a Catholic in nominal terms, go to mass maybe 4/5 times a year.
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  3. #13
    jackryan jackryan is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideysGhost View Post
    +1

    Just how many crimes do these arrogant scumbags have to be involved in before people turn their backs on this weirdie foreign cult?
    If people want to follow them so be it!! they are doing their job, if people want to follow them so be it? just leave the rest of us alone. they want to have control over you, so the basic line is if you want to use our services/facilities follow our rules! which is fair enough and just a message to all church members/casual users from me an athiest, the catholic church is not a democracy so put up or get out!!
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  4. #14
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sync View Post
    So you're accusing a group of people of being arrogant and incapable of listening based on stories you've been told about one of those people. Do you know how stupid that is?
    No. The same problem is found in tons of parishes. 3 neighbouring parishes have similar problems with new priests who are going on a squander-mania, without consultation. I know of parishes in Dublin with the same thing happened. Last week I was at a family get-together with relatives on another side of the family. The relative asked what happened to that lovely old Georgian church there used to be in our parish and who the hell allowed it to be turned into the kitsch monstrosity it became in the 1990s?

    He was told by my sister the story of how the then priest unilaterally did it, and how the new priest was seriously p*ssing off everyone with his latest fads, but would not listen to complaints. My uncle whom we were visiting got up and got his parish newsletter and showed that their priest in their parish had decided, again unilaterally, that he wanted a new parochial house, despite the fact that the current one is only 20 years old and in good nick. No-one knew anything until he had signed the contracts. He didn't tell anyone when PP was applied for and the PP notice was on a gate on a stretch of road few travelled on. He only informed the parishioners when he had trapped the parish into water-tight legal contracts to build the shagging thing. He will be moved in a couple of years, leaving the parishioners of his parish with the debts he ran up 'in their name'.

    (My own parish now has 3 parochial houses. There used to be one, but then two priests in it couldn't get on, so they went off and built a second. Now the new priest doesn't like the second one (it is too far away in a large parish) so uses that as storage and bought a third friggin' one.)

    As to why people don't refuse to pay - it is their parish. They are proud of it. They don't want to see it left bankrupt by a cleric who after a couple of years will be moved away to another parish to go on another spending spree with someone else's money. But all efforts to try to get their clerics to listen to the communities they are supposed to be serving falls on deaf ears. They see themselves as God's elite able to make God's decisions with someone else's money in local parishes. And they surround themselves with a small group of sycophants who do nothing other than tell the priest what a good job he is doing.

    At this stage many parishes hate having new priests appointed, because they know the first thing many new priests do is go off on squandering parish money on their pet projects and won't listen to ordinary parishioners who plead with them to stop.
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  5. #15
    Observer Observer is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    The new priest decided to change Mass times on Sundays. He picked a dumb time that is totally unsuited to the needs of his local parish. It is a rural farming parish with many dairy farmers. The time he picked means that farmers will either have to start waking up their unfortunate cows at dawn to have all the farm work done by Mass time, or else leave it until after Mass and be milking at lunchtime. Again no one was consulted, and he won't listen to complaints. The new time suits him, and that is all that matters.

    He recently made a change regarding funerals. In country funerals, neighbours sympathise with the family of the deceased. That has happened for decades in the church, where it is warm, dry and crowd control is easy. The new guy has decided that it must take place in the cemetery, which is on an exposed hill. So now old people are expected to clamour over graves to get to the family to sympathise with people. People in wheelchairs or who are physically unable perhaps due to sight loss to climb over graves to get to the family cannot do it.

    Locals have pointed out that it is crazy to insist that offering sympathy takes place in the cemetery - it is dangerous, someone could get hurt and anyway the way the cemetery is laid out is a mess, with few paths and uneven gravel, courtesy of another former priest who decided that was what he wanted it to be, and where he wanted it to be.
    As someone pointed out above, you're generalising from a sample of one. You're going to get a spread of personality types among any occupation, and you seem to have been unlucky in this instance.

    A couple of questions:

    a) Is there only a Sunday Mass in the parish, or is there a Saturday evening Mass as well?
    b) Is the priest only repsonsible for one parish or has he to juggle service times in other parishes?
    c) Is there no tradition of removals to the church the evening before the funeral, which is often going to be a more convenient time for people to sympathise with the bereaved rather than on the morning of the funeral itself?
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  6. #16
    Rocky Rocky is offline
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    Can't say that my local Parish Priest is remotely arrogant, nor was the one before. Both very good.
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  7. #17
    rhonda15 rhonda15 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    No. The same problem is found in tons of parishes. 3 neighbouring parishes have similar problems with new priests who are going on a squander-mania, without consultation. I know of parishes in Dublin with the same thing happened. Last week I was at a family get-together with relatives on another side of the family. The relative asked what happened to that lovely old Georgian church there used to be in our parish and who the hell allowed it to be turned into the kitsch monstrosity it became in the 1990s?

    He was told by my sister the story of how the then priest unilaterally did it, and how the new priest was seriously p*ssing off everyone with his latest fads, but would not listen to complaints. My uncle whom we were visiting got up and got his parish newsletter and showed that their priest in their parish had decided, again unilaterally, that he wanted a new parochial house, despite the fact that the current one is only 20 years old and in good nick. No-one knew anything until he had signed the contracts. He didn't tell anyone when PP was applied for and the PP notice was on a gate on a stretch of road few travelled on. He only informed the parishioners when he had trapped the parish into water-tight legal contracts to build the shagging thing. He will be moved in a couple of years, leaving the parishioners of his parish with the debts he ran up 'in their name'.

    (My own parish now has 3 parochial houses. There used to be one, but then two priests in it couldn't get on, so they went off and built a second. Now the new priest doesn't like the second one (it is too far away in a large parish) so uses that as storage and bought a third friggin' one.

    As to why people don't refuse to pay - it is their parish. They are proud of it. They don't want to see it left bankrupt by a cleric who after a couple of years will be moved away to another parish to go on another spending spree with someone else's money. But all efforts to try to get their clerics to listen to the communities they are supposed to be serving falls on deaf ears. They see themselves as God's elite able to make God's decisions with someone else's money in local parishes. And they surround themselves with a small group of sycophants who do nothing other than tell the priest what a good job he is doing.

    At this stage many parishes hate having new priests appointed, because they know the first thing many new priests do is go off on squandering parish money on their pet projects and won't listen to ordinary parishioners who plead with them to stop.
    Sounds like a serious lack of oversight by the Bishops and the Catholic hierarchy.

    Between paedophile priests costing them a packet and the squandering clerics the C.Church in Ireland better watch out.

    Although ... would anyone hazard a guess at the real wealth of the Catholic Church (Worldwide Inc) ... incalculable.
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  8. #18
    murf13 murf13 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by gatsbygirl20 View Post
    ?.......
    So their perceived arrogance will not be a problem for much longer.
    and thank 'God' for that...
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  9. #19
    Mikeoc Mikeoc is offline

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    Here's an idea that might work. Stop listening to arrogant parish priests. Stop putting money in their collection plates. Stop going to mass. I personally couldn't give a sh1t if my local church collapsed into rubble for want of renovation and the parish priest ended up flogging Big Issues outside the post office. If they're that badly off for money, let the Vatican sell some of their priceless artworks
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  10. #20
    EvotingMachine0197 EvotingMachine0197 is offline
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    The church in Portmarnock spent €1.5 Million on a new roof and some new pughs.There was feck all wrong with the old roof.

    The Portmarnock PP's house is getting refurbished at the moment, well, has been for the last 4 months at least. So the PP moved into the Country Club Hotel.

    I wouldn't give these ******************************s a penny.
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