Irish Landowners and Irish Unionists are Birds of a Feather

[Cael]

I find is amazing that any time I mention land nationalisation, someone will always take my statements to mean that I want to kill all the farmers. And, of course, next they will mention the Russian Kulaks. Though, in the past, several types of industries were nationalised in Ireland, and other parts of the world, without any violence at all.

So, what is the implication of these comparisons? What is the background belief behind them? Of course, the implication is not that the state would violently nationalise the land, but that the landowners would violently oppose any democratic decision to nationalise our land. And, would use such a level of violence that the state would, eventually, be forced to defend itself. The threat of the Russian Kulaks was that they would starve Russia if they did not get their way. And, they put that threat into effect by destroying half the food in all of the USSR - and, in the process starving their own children along with the children of others. We have often heard the same threat from Irish landowners.

And so it is with the Unionists. Anytime one mentions a democratic unification of our country, someone will always claim that this is a threat to kill all the Unionists. The background belief being that the Unionists, like in 1914 and after, would use violence to oppose any democratic decision, and that eventually, the state would be forced to defend itself against them. That is why the most obvious question of all was not allowed to be asked in the GFA referenda: Do you want a United Ireland?

So, here we have two of the most powerful groups in Ireland. Indeed, one could say THE two most powerful groups in Ireland; as the face of Ireland today is drawn by the privileges of these two groups. And their privileges over the majority of the Irish people are maintained by the threat of violence - to the point where anyone who suggests democratically taking these privileges away from them will automatically be accused of wanting to kill these two groups. In other words, anyone who opposes the violence of the Irish Landowners and the Irish Unionists, will be accused of violence.

[Fr Jack Hackett]

Can I take your Job? Based on your argument?

[Cael]

The job of being a farmer can just as easily be done on a State Farm. We already pay farmers 75% of their income in hand outs. Would it not be better to give them 100% of their income as collective workers?

[willoughby]

I did'nt even read the OP but Cael can you seriously Compare Martin Ferris to a Unionist.

[seanad voter]

I find is amazing that any time I mention land nationalisation, someone will always take my statements to mean that I want to kill all the farmers

We know you only want to kill a FEW.

[Toland]

The sheer capacity to ignore experience is astounding.

As is the inability to appreciate the implications of respecting the individual freedoms of citizens.

This poster is pathologically amoral, amongst other things.

[bettybotox]

The job of being a farmer can just as easily be done on a State Farm. We already pay farmers 75% of their income in hand outs. Would it not be better to give them 100% of their income as collective workers?

Why are farmers always saying they're poor?
Surely if farming didn't pay none of them would do it?

[willoughby]

CAEL

My father owns his land. He paid for some of it himself, was left some of it by his father whoin turn had paid for it himself. Where do you get to the idea that you have the right to nationalise it. I'd say 99.9999% of the Irish people would disagree with you.

[Fr Jack Hackett]

The job of being a farmer can just as easily be done on a State Farm. We already pay farmers 75% of their income in hand outs. Would it not be better to give them 100% of their income as collective workers?

I grew up on a small farm (50 acres) At the minute I am working from 7:15am to 4pm in a job as the farm WILL NOT support a living. I am also lamning sheep and Cows are calving at the minute. I average 5 hours sleep a night. 75% of what I make will go BACK into the farm. through feed, maintenence etc. Cael would you like me to ge t5 hours sleep a night so you can have cheaper food??? Farming for people like me is a hobby, not a business.

[Cael]

CAEL

My father owns his land. He paid for some of it himself, was left some of it by his father whoin turn had paid for it himself. Where do you get to the idea that you have the right to nationalise it. I'd say 99.9999% of the Irish people would disagree with you.

We had a thread on the arguments against private landownership, but a right wing mod messed it up to the point of it being unreadable.