Ireland's sons turn their backs on the priesthood

[Cato]

at what point did you become an atheist and why?

Up until three years ago I was still a believer, going to mass every week and praying the Divine Office daily. One day I started re-reading some philosophy, last looked at back in the mid-90s. These included Hume and Decartes. I decided to investigate my own beliefs rationally, honestly, fearlessly, letting reason take me where it will, without any preconceived destination. My faith could not survive this process as it simply kept running into the problem that there was no evidence or compelling argument that could support it. I therefore stopped believing. This took some effort of will as I had to overcome the habit of a lifetime and the indoctrination of my youth. For a while I fell into nihilism, but I have now moved beyond that.

[Scipio]

Up until three years ago I was still a believer, going to mass every week and praying the Divine Office daily. One day I started re-reading some philosophy, last looked at back in the mid-90s. These included Hume and Decartes. I decided to investigate my own beliefs rationally, honestly, fearlessly, letting reason take me where it will, without any preconceived destination. My faith could not survive this process as it simply kept running into the problem that there was no evidence or compelling argument that could support it. I therefore stopped believing. This took some effort of will as I had to overcome the habit of a lifetime and the indoctrination of my youth. For a while I fell into nihilism, but I have now moved beyond that.

As both you and I well know Cato, most (if not all) organized religions are man-made constructs and so are subject to man-made frailties. Our modern concept of God and his church is but one of these. I presume you learned that the hard way.
I don't believe that it necessarily follows though that all wider spiritual/life-force ideas are also, to use a Dawkins term, "deluded".

Two good writers on this very broad topic (who I'm sure you already know) are Eckhart Tolle and Anthony de Mello.

[dónal na geallaí]

One might also note that while bishops/apostles and deacons are mentioned in the NT, priests are not.

Didn't Basil Hume once say the Church would have single women before they would ordain married men? The latter would need proper salaries,mortgages - or decent family housing etc.He thought it would bankrupt the RCC,which has survived all these years on thrift.

On the other hand, I was talking a while back to a very devout Catholic man who thinks women clergy are both inevitable and essential to the survival of the Church - which he believes will 'last for all time.'

[Cruimh]

.He thought it would bankrupt the RCC,which has survived all these years on thrift.

Theft arguably - but thrift ?

[dónal na geallaí]

Cato,how hard was it to re-orientate your academic career? I mean theology is very interesting but I assume you don't employ it in your current position.There must be lots nearly and ex priests out there,I wonder how they cope.

Of course rumour used to have it that guys would use Maynooth to get an education for free.And then 'eccola I have no vocation!' Urban myth I think,though.

[dónal na geallaí]

Theft arguably - but thrift ?

Thrift,like employing teachers,nurses,missionaries and priests but not actually paying them.The whole celibacy thing was to stop priests willing glebe lands to their offspring.These families who farmed said lands were called 'erenaghs' in Ireland,members of so called 'saorclanna' families who paid no heed to the bishops - or probably the Pope for that matter.Where's Riadach when you need him? My Irish is too weak to get into this whole thing Cruimh.

[Cato]

Cato,how hard was it to re-orientate your academic career? I mean theology is very interesting but I assume you don't employ it in your current position.There must be lots nearly and ex priests out there,I wonder how they cope.

Your training in Maynooth comes in three parts. For the first two/three years you either study a diploma in philosophy, or you take an arts or science degree as part of which you either must study philosophy as part of the degree or do some courses in it. After that you spend three years studying for a degree in Divinity. In the final year you either do a post graduate course or you do a diploma in pastoral studies.

I was only there for three and a half years so I completed a degree in philosophy and started theology (although I did read a fair bit of it during the first three years).

In my chosen career as a retail manager, I have to admit that philosophy has rarely been directly useful!

Of course rumour used to have it that guys would use Maynooth to get an education for free.And then 'eccola I have no vocation!' Urban myth I think,though.

While I cannot say that this has never been true I would say that it would be very difficult to put up with the regime in the seminary unless you did have a vocation. It could be very tough at times.

All in all though, I look back at it with fondness and am thankful for what I learnt and for the people I got to know. On the whole they were a fine body of well-meaning men.

[President Bartlet]

What is needed is a Liberal Pope and Vactican 3 to rewrite Church Laws - but what are the changes of this? until the conservative wing of the Church is weakened I dont think there will be any meaningful change such as allowing priests to marry and vocations will continue to decline.

[Cruimh]

What is needed is a Liberal Pope and Vactican 3 to rewrite Church Laws - but what are the changes of this? until the conservative wing of the Church is weakened I dont think there will be any meaningful change such as allowing priests to marry and vocations will continue to decline.

That would surely require a huge turn round ? An admission that the Church as been fundamentally wrong ? Would it be possible ?

[The Field Marshal]

. The bishops have done little to prepare for this crisis.

Its touching that somebody who describes himself as an atheist should regard a fall off in vocations as a crisis.

[Im still waiting for your reply to my question on where I contradicted Aquinas over on the other thread]