Hans Kung +top Cardinal blames RC views on sex for clerical child abuse, end celibacy

[cyberianpan]

Whilst a bit of a renegade Hans Kung is a big beast and has a large following. He has now said celibacy and lack of women priests and general Catholic attitude to sex lies behind child abuse scandals.

Here's a short bio:
Hans Küng - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Küng studied theology and philosophy at the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome and was ordained in 1954. He then continued his education in various European cities, including the Sorbonne in Paris.
In 1960 Küng was appointed professor of theology at Eberhard Karls University, Tübingen, Germany. Just like his colleague Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI), in 1962 he was appointed peritus by Pope John XXIII, serving as an expert theological advisor to members of the Second Vatican Council until its conclusion in 1965. At Küng's instigation, the Catholic Faculty at Tübingen appointed Ratzinger as professor of dogmatics. However, due to the 1968 students revolt, Ratzinger moved to the university of Regensburg, ending the cooperation between the two.
During his 1963 six week (March-April) tour of the United States, Küng gave the lecture "The Church and Freedom", receiving an interdict from the Catholic University of America and an honorary doctorate from St. Louis University. He also accepted an invitation to visit John F. Kennedy at the White House.[2]

And he's opened the right can of worms:
Father Hans Kung blames Catholic views on sex for clerical child abuse -Times Online

A leading Roman Catholic theologian has linked clerical sex abuse with priestly celibacy, blaming the Church’s “uptight” views on sex for child abuse scandals in Germany, Ireland and the US.

Father Hans Kung, President of the Global Ethic Foundation and professor emeritus at the University of Tübingen in Germany, said that the Church’s attitude was also revealed in its opposition to birth control.

The German church rejected any suggestion that abuse was linked to celibacy, homosexuality or church teaching.

Last week the Regensburg Diocese in Germany revealed that a former chorister claimed he was abused while a member of its choir, which was led for three decades by Father Georg Ratzinger, brother of Pope Benedict XVI
...He argues that there are two simple solutions to the shortage of priests: “Abolition of the celibacy rule, the root of all these evils, and the admission of women to ordination. The bishops know this, but they do not have the courage to say it in public.”

Is Hans Kung right ?


cYp

[Thranduil]

Whilst a bit of a renegade Hans Kung is a big beast and has a large following. He has now said celibacy and lack of women priests and general Catholic attitude to sex lies behind child abuse scandals.

In the Roman Catholic religion it doesn't come down to 'following', it's a hierarchal structure, fathers obey bishops, bishops obey cardinals etc, etc. The Protestant faith appeals to the idea of 'following' and individual personalities more (especially the evangelicals).

I don't agree with him that any one issue like celibacy was responsible for the child abuse scandals, in the case of institutional abuse it wasn't a case of priests abducting children without the state's permission, there was collusion between state and the religious authorities... That collusion has disapeared now and therefore so has most of the danger, children are no longer being locked away and abused by priests (those concerned with just this issue should instead be focusing now on conditions in secular detention facilities) therefore there is no need to look at the idea of priests' sexuality, maybe the charismatic Fr Kung is just looking for an excuse to get a leg over?

All this talk of a need for radical change in the Catholic Church is not geared towards child abuse but is an attempt to use these issues to bring about certain changes for other reasons, from the point of view of clerical sex abuse it's a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, these scandals relate to decades ago - but the funny thing is they are only REALLY being examined now - so people who pick up newspapers are being led to believe this is a current event.

[TommyO'Brien]

Yes.

[Catalpa]

Whilst a bit of a renegade Hans Kung is a big beast and has a large following. He has now said celibacy and lack of women priests and general Catholic attitude to sex lies behind child abuse scandals.

Here's a short bio:
Hans Küng - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And he's opened the right can of worms:
Father Hans Kung blames Catholic views on sex for clerical child abuse -Times Online


Is Hans Kung right ?


cYp

He might well be -

But he is certainly the most influential Catholic in the World that is not a member of the Hierarchy.

While his views of course would not bring instant results they will add impetus to the move for change within the Church on Celibacy and the ordination of women.

There are no deep theological conflicts involved here IMO

- but I think we could be some years away yet from seeing this happen.

Any Pontiff who seeks to lead the Church in that direction will have to ensure he can take the Faithful to that point without splitting the Catholic Church down the middle in the process...

Its unlikely to be the current occupant of the throne of St Peter who does so anyway.

[Thranduil]

I would be concerned about the inference that celibacy is a marker for paedophilia, (many child sex abuse victims are abused by their own fathers, grandfathers, married uncles etc....... i have no statistics but i would be willing to bet that those in relationships are more likely to be child abusers).

It sounds a bit like saying that being male makes it more likely that you are a rapist, anyway (the idea that not having sex is a predicting factor for extreme abnormal sexuality sounds a bit Freudian to me).

If he wishes to introduce the celibacy debate then that is ok but there is no call to use child abuse as a springboard for that.

[toxic avenger]

No, I don't think he's right at all, at least for the vast majority of cases (I wouldn't presume to deny it might have had an influence in some cases). Simple question - if it's celibacy, why the lack of prevalence (compared to Ireland) in Latin America, Africa, South-East Asia, etc.? And don't many husbands/fathers get sent to prison for abusing either their own kids or kids in their trust? I would argue that the particular type of Catholicism in Ireland from the late 19th Century onwards, a mix of repressed sexuality or psychosexual immaturity, the ridiculous amount of deference towards clergy (and the abuse of that deference by a lot of the clergy), the secrecy and power that was allowed to the clergy, and the lack of a clear understanding that Canon Law is not sufficient to 'stand in' for State law, all of these things and others combined to create the environment in which child abuse was made possible with impunity. Many clerics were out and out psychopaths, others were pig-ignorant, others were mere time-servers. Some were really Christians. It is the combination of power, repression, and secrecy, not celibacy, that allowed some of those psychos and perverts to do what they did. And I say that as someone who has no objection in principle to the reintroduction of married clergy (celibacy has always been a matter of practice and convenience, not a matter of doctrine).

There was a particularly poisonous form of Catholicism in Ireland, one that thankfully can no longer be possible. Those who would traditionally have been attracted to the priesthood, not as a Catholic calling, rather as a career move into a position of trust and social standing, will now look elsewhere for that, leaving only true Christians, perhaps substantially reduced numbers, as clerics and laity. Hopefully, anyway.

[Mark.Keogh]

Is Hans Kung right ?

Celibacy was to address nepotism in the 16th centuary where its indirect effects led to a flow from RC to protestanism. It worked and protestants were reduced to northern and eastern Europe. Later the church found it was beneficial to have an 'out of bounds' strapping young priest preaching from the pulpet during the hundreds of years of growing sexual repression (think Colin Hanks in Season 2 of Mad Men), especially when they were fighting for the souls of their children and a nation's soverignity in the face of protestant England and the Netherlands.

Back in the 6th centuary Irish Kings were bishops, had three wives and 30 children. How the RC church has limped on in Europe since the 80's is amazing. The Greek orthadox system seems to satisfy everyone. But these days I think most western societies would feel safer if the priest was female and married (male or female). Then they might send their children back to the church.

If it wasn't for the church's strangle hold on educational properties and the benefit in being RC in order to enter desirable schools there wouldn't be a single attendant to mass under the age of 50. Perhaps the church will change before Europe wrangles secular schooling for all, but I think the church will petrify & crumble or wither & waste away before it changes.

[Mitsui2]

Celibacy was to address nepotism in the 12th centuary where its indirect effects led to a flow from RC to protestanism. It worked and protestants were reduced to northern and eastern Europe.

12th century Protestanism? Now that's something you don't hear about every day.

[Newsy]

I agree with him to an extent. The Church has had a terribly negative view of sex and as for sexuality....well they didn't have a clue.

If they had a more positive view, this may have influenced their induction of women.

I don't believe however, that ending celibacy will reduce sexual abuse. There is no correation.

[The Field Marshal]

Is Hans Kung right ?


cYp

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Hans Kung has never been right about anything.


This washed out heretic posing as a theologian has no knowledge whatever of the inner workings of the Deities mind.

His pernicious influence was responsible for many of the disasterous and destructive liturgical changes introduced by Vatican 2.

In classic heretic style he cannot bring himself to accept Papal authority and thus reveals his essentially protestant and Martin Luther like mindset.


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