Statement from the Irish Writer's Centre regarding funding.

[Sailor]

This has just been brought to my attention :

The cap fits, but tax appeal is the problem - The Irish Times - Sat, Feb 06, 2010

so.... did the Rvenue Commissioners seek the advice of Martin Cullen's Arts Council in granting Bertie ((I want to go to heaven Ahern))
artistic exemption and thus merit for a book he did not write.

I reckon, the current Arts Council need abolition quite seriously now.

Absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread which is IWC funding - nor does it address the issues in my previous post:

"I have absolutely no problem with an independent Arts Council - but I have yet to hear how the spending of taxpayers' money will be monitored and controlled. I'm also unclear as to how the members of this Council will be appointed. I also have a suspicion that if this independent Council falls foul of some artist or artistic group there will be howls for their resignation too."

[Ed Dantes]

l have long been of the opinion that FF/Green are chancers, mostly illiterate and quite possibly unaware of the concept of stewardship in governance. The Green silence on Blasphemy, on Tara and on fund cuts to protestant schools bear out the thesis of 'lack' in awareness of how much of their purported policy is instantly 'negotiable'. All they have to do is roll out a Gogarty chronic or a Gormley smirk to evade debate. They're fcking the IWC now, statement here : Irish Writers' Centre - Statement from the Board

It is Irish Writers' Centre - the apostrophe comes AFTER the 's' as it is plural possessive. I am sure the IWC members would know this.

[Christine Murray]

Absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread which is IWC funding - nor does it address the issues in my previous post:

"I have absolutely no problem with an independent Arts Council - but I have yet to hear how the spending of taxpayers' money will be monitored and controlled. I'm also unclear as to how the members of this Council will be appointed. I also have a suspicion that if this independent Council falls foul of some artist or artistic group there will be howls for their resignation too."

I beg to differ, the Irish Arts Council advise the Revenue Commissioners on artistic merit, (as they will probaly advise on blasphemy),
under the 2003 Arts Act they are no longer independent but a quango who have made decisions cooly based in reflecting FF policy.
The cuts to the WWC/IWC left them with 0% funding.

0% to centres that are about writing. That is possibly the most appalling decision I have read of. Now, the same Martin Cullen
appointed council advised the RC to give Bertie's book a tax exemption based in artistic merit!!!!!!!

Please abolish the Arts Council, they have proven themselves to be incapable of acting independently of the Renaissance court of
FF's tacky and naive Republicanism= they will destroy Art to line a pocket.

As a Council, if they were to have integrity to the evolution of Art , they should be questioning these
appalling problems inherent in the system, they should be holding panel discussions on blasphemy,
they should be challenging the status quo. they are not. They are inherently disfunctional, thanks to
John O Donoghue.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...263863786.html

[Sailor]

I beg to differ, the Irish Arts Council advise the Revenue Commissioners on artistic merit, (as they will probaly advise on blasphemy), under the 2003
Arts Act they are no longer independent but a quango who have made decisions
cooly based in reflecting FF policy. The cuts to the WWC/IWC left them with
0% funding.

0% to centres that are about writing. That is possibly the most appalling
decision I have read of. Now the same Martin Cullen appointed council
advised the RC to give Bertie's book a tax exemption based in artistic merit!

Please abolish the Arts Coucil, they have proven themselves to be incapable of acting independently of the Renaissance court of FF's tacky and naive
republicanism= they will destroy Art to line a pocket.

But - hold on Dot - if the Arts Council were making "pro-government" decisions would you not logically expect that their funding would remain intact?

And how have you established a link between Bertie's tax free status and the decision by the Arts Council to cut funding to the IWC?

[Christine Murray]

But - hold on Dot - if the Arts Council were making "pro-government" decisions would you not logically expect that their funding would remain intact?

And how have you established a link between Bertie's tax free status and the decision by the Arts Council to cut funding to the IWC?

Sailor, I have said this yesterday and repeating it here :

Under the 2003 Arts Act the Arts Council lost it's independence, please do not put words into my mouth. I have not said that
they are pro-government ; but that they are reflecting the concerns of the state which are tbh limited and cheap. FF have been
in power for 13 years , so I reckon that they pretty much have branded the state in the absence of any opposition party who
can forward a decent Arts Policy.

The Revenue Commissioners take advices from the Irish Arts Council which is appointed by the Arts Minister (Martin Cullen)
regarding granting tax exemptions based in artistic merit. Bertie Ahern was endowed with this status, even though he did
not write the book .

I do not think that one minister should appoint the council , nor that the Coucil should answer to one minister.

The first thing that the present council did was to attack the funding of the IWC/WWC.

They did not make cuts, they savaged resources.

[Sailor]

Sailor, I have said this yesterday and repeating it here :

Under the 2003 Arts Act the Arts Council lost it's independence, please do not
put words into my mouth. I have not said that they are pro-government ; but that they are reflecting the concerns of the state which are tbh limited
and cheap. FF have been in power for 13 years , so I reckon that they pretty
much have branded the state in the absence of any opposition party who
can forward a decent Arts Policy.

The Revenue Commissioners take advices from the Irish Arts Council which
is appointed by the Arts Minister (Martin Cullen) regarding granting tax
exemptions based in artistic merit. bertie Ahern was endowed with this
status, even though he did not write the book .

I do not think that one minister should appoint the council.

Dot - the very thing I am trying to avoid is putting words in your mouth. I have repeatedly asked you some questions which you will not answer. In my last 2 posts, I have posed 4 question. How about 4 responses?

[Christine Murray]

But - hold on Dot - if the Arts Council were making "pro-government" decisions would you not logically expect that their funding would remain intact?

And how have you established a link between Bertie's tax free status and the decision by the Arts Council to cut funding to the IWC?

1.you asked 'if the Arts Council were making 'pro-government' decisions, would you not logically expect that their funding remain intact?:

1.Thats not even a question, it arises from the assumption that the Arts Council are pro-government, when they
are just not independent of Government interference and concerns. I don't think any quango's funding remains
intact; but one assumes that cuts will be across the board and not savage and localised.

2. You assume a link between Bertie's tax frees status and the IWC. I never made such an accusation. I noted that it is an
inherent failure of the Council to make bad advisements and savage cuts because they lack independence
from the concerns of Bertie's close ex-colleagues.

[Christine Murray]

This is an information page on the Artist's tax exemption , I won't be back online till
this evening :

Exemption from income tax for artists-Information from CitizensInformation.ie

I contend that the lack of independence of the Irish Art's Council is bad for artistic development in this country ,
discussion about this occurred in 2003 when John O Donoghue made the changes to the 1973 Arts Act. Those changes
were and are wrong .

The self-same Art's Council that savaged independent writing centres has granted artistic merit to a book not written
by an ex-taoiseach. I will of course apologise if it emerges that the Revenue Commissioners did not even seek Arts Council
advisements and decided all by themselves that Bertie Ahern is both an artist and a professor!

[Sailor]

1.you asked 'if the Arts Council were making 'pro-government' decisions, would you not logically expect that their funding remain intact?:

1.Thats not even a question, it arises from the assumption that the Arts Council are pro-government, when they
are just not independent of Government interference and concerns. I don't think any quango's funding remains
intact; but one assumes that cuts will be across the board and not savage and localised.

2. You assume a link between Bertie's tax frees status and the IWC. I never made such an accusation. I noted that it is an
inherent failure of the Council to make bad advisements and savage cuts because they lack independence
from the concerns of Bertie's close ex-colleagues.

1. I think anybody reading this exchange will have formed the opinion that you regard the Arts Council as being pro-government in the sense that their decisions are a reflection of government policy. From the outset you have linked the IWC funding cut directly back to the FF/Green government. Otherwise it is quite likely that your independent Council would have screwed the IWC in the same manner as the present lot.
2. You started the thread and you have encouraged the linkage of Bertie's tax treatment to the thread topic - not I who tried to establish such a link.

Now, how about answering the questions about 1)how your independent Arts Council would be appointed and by whom, and 2) what oversight would be exercised in the management of taxpayer funding of this new Council

[Sailor]

This is an information page on the Artist's tax exemption , I won't be back online till
this evening :

Exemption from income tax for artists-Information from CitizensInformation.ie

I contend that the lack of independence of the Irish Art's Council is bad for artistic development in this country ,
discussion about this occurred in 2003 when John O Donoghue made the changes to the 1973 Arts Act. Those changes
were and are wrong .

The self-same Art's Council that savaged independent writing centres has granted artistic merit to a book not written
by an ex-taoiseach. I will of course apologise if it emerges that the Revenue Commissioners did not even seek Arts Council
advisements and decided all by themselves that Bertie Ahern is both an artist and a professor!

There you go again - you seek to absolve yourself from drawing Bertie into the discussion and off you go and drag him in again. I'm trying to stay on-topic but you, the OP, continually stray off it.