Michael Collins Film

[Cael]

[quote=The Analyser]

Deeply tragic that Collins used this method on his best friend.

Collins didn't.

I wonder if Beal na mBlath was not suicide on Collins part. He stood out in the middle of the road firing at men with rifles on high ground and with excellent cover. Nobody could be stupid enough to do this by accident. Perhaps when he looked around him and saw his new free state army full of ex British soldiers carrying out even worse autrocities against Irish patriots than they did under the direct orders of the English Crown his old patriotism caught hold of him and he prefered to die in combat with his old friends and comrades in his native Cork rather than die in bed in Dublin an old and rich British lacky.

What a load of bullshiit. The reason why Collins stood in an exposed location was, according to the accounts of witnesses,

(i) he had no practical experience of ambushes and put himself inadverently into the line of fire. Before those experienced in dealing with ambushes could rescue him he was hit by a ricocheting bullet.

(ii) The guy had a bad cold. En route he stopped off to meet people in local assembly points, all of them pubs. Friends gave him hot whiskeys for his cold. By the time the ambush occurred he was pisssed on the whiskeys and as happens, drink made him take a risk.

Even by your standards of dillusion, and they are pretty spectacular, to think that Collins committed suicide is completely perverse. No-one, whatever their viewpoint, has ever thought that is what happened. It is simple: because of lack of on-the-ground military experience he made a tactical error, and because of the hot whiskeys for his cold he was jarred. And because of that mistake an extraordinary man lost his life.

I wanted to make a tragedy about a great man, but it seems, Anal-yser, that you want to make a comedy about a drunk, idiotic, Stage Irishman staggering around on a country road in County Cork and getting hit by a stray bullet.

The usual stereotypical rubbish from you. There is nothing comic about the death of a great man. Nor is the fact that the guy was inexperienced in ambushes (he was a planner, not someone who staged them) or that he had taken some whiskeys for his cold and was jarred, stage Irish. The fact that you think that simply reflects your own warped psyche. Collins had a heavy cold. That is recorded. His colleagues recorded that while he never drank while travelling around the country, because of his cold he agreed to take a couple of hot whiskeys when pushed to do so by friends concerned about the cold. His colleagues also thought that as he was in his native Cork he may have felt more at ease and at home, and thought of himself under less threat. By the time he left the last venue they record that he was "scuttered". One of them joked that Mick might finally get a good night's sleep, rather than being up to all hours working.

When the ambush by some republican idiots happened, they did not know who was in the convoy. They were just attacking a travelling convoy. Collins told the convoy to stop, overruling an order to "drive on, for fuuck sake." Those with experience of attacks assumed normal positions. However Collins had not had that experience during the War of Independence - his role had been different, as the brains, not the brawn, of the independence movement - and got himself into an exposed position. Because of the whiskey his judgment and speed of movement was flawed. One of the republicans fired on what they presumed was just a soldier. The bullet bounced and hit him on the back of the head, blowing open part of his skull. That is what witnesses on all sides said happened.[/quote:28ifj2yp]

You know Anal-yser, you missed your calling as a comedy writer. This is classic comedy. A general gets a cold in the heart of enemy territory - so what does he do? Drinks a load of hot whiskey and leaves himself totally unable to command his troops - or even keep himself out of harms way. Indeed, he puts his men at risk trying to save his drunken ass. He couldnt even get hit by a straight shot, but catches a re-bound. And this great soldier who has planned so many successful ambushes against British forces is so drunk that he forgets that a lone man standing in the middle of the road with a hand gun hasnt got a snowflakes chance in hell against men on high ground with rifles. A truely comic end. Much more Groucho Marx than Euripides.

Call me a romantic if you will, but I much prefer my scenario.

[tonys]

The film was a hatchet job on De Valera, exactly as Jordan intended it to be. He went as far as he possibly could go to lay the blame for Collins death at Dev’s door. Jordan let himself and the truth down with this film.

[The Analyser]

The film was a hatchet job on De Valera, exactly as Jordan intended it to be. He went as far as he possibly could go to lay the blame for Collins death at Dev’s door. Jordan let himself and the truth down with this film.

Correct. It was deeply unfair to de Valera. De Valera had (many) faults. But the film was very unfair to him particularly over Collins's death.

[Winky]

I wonder if Beal na mBlath was not suicide on Collins part. He stood out in the middle of the road firing at men with rifles on high ground and with excellent cover. Nobody could be stupid enough to do this by accident. Perhaps when he looked around him and saw his new free state army full of ex British soldiers carrying out even worse autrocities against Irish patriots than they did under the direct orders of the English Crown his old patriotism caught hold of him and he prefered to die in combat with his old friends and comrades in his native Cork rather than die in bed in Dublin an old and rich British lacky.

Wonder on, Cael. He stood there because he was full of himself by that stage, and had never been in that type of fight before.

[FutureTaoiseach]

The hanging of Ned Broy. Collins tryst with Kitty Kiernan in the hotel may also be factually inaccurate.

[hiding behind a poster]

Call me a romantic if you will, but I much prefer my scenario.

Of course you're the only person who believes it, Cael - much like many things, in fact.

But anyway, why don't you get one of those nonsensical historical "sources" that you like to trawl off the internet in support of your various crackpot theories on Irish history? They're always a good laugh, if nothing else.